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Old 10-07-2006, 20:29   #1
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Oil, and oil changes

Hopefully this won't stir the same passions as a "what's the best anchor" question, but I'm curious what some of you who are well-versed in Engine Maintainance would do.
I'm breaking in a new Yanmar 75 hp turbo auxilliary (also a Westerbeke 7.6KW gen-set, if the advice differs). I only have 10 hrs on the engine, less on the gen. The following stats mainly apply to the Yanmar. I've been good about altering the running rpm, running it under load at all times, and giving it short bursts up to 3200-3300 rpm (a few minutes at a time). Most running is between 1800 and 3000 rpm.
Manuel says change oil at 50 hrs. I'll probably go earlier, say around 25-30 hrs. Came from the factory with petroleum oil, I'll do first change with Delo or Shell Rotella (both petroleum) unless there's good reason not to. After the first change, I'll go another 30-50 hrs, then change to a synthetic...Also, I plan to change filter with each oil change.
Q's...does this sound like a reasonable plan? Like everyone, I want to maximize the dependability and performance...is there a better way?
Re the oils, any advice on pet vs synthetic, and change-interval? Should I run a petroleum longer to seat the valves?
Last, does this general logic hold true for the gen-set, or should I be looking at other intervals etc for the big red 'beke?
Thanks for any advice...
John
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Old 11-07-2006, 01:16   #2
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At the moment, just run the engine on the manufacturers specified oil. Stay away from and additives. Change your oil a little earlier than normal change cycles till you reach 200hrs and ensure you have a good quality filter each time as well.
The issue isn't about valves seating. Hopefully they are seating from new and Oil doesn't have any affect on their seating. Oil does affect cyclinder wear and in a Deisel engine, it's all about stopping the bore from Glazing. Once this happens, you can't stop the engine from burning oil.
When you do eventually go for a synthetic, be careful you use a Marine grade or at the very least a Deisel grade oil. I recomend Amzoil and I highly recomend you use there filters. If you really want good longevity, use a centrifigal filter (expensive, but you never need to replace it) and Amzoil will last for years without having to be replaced.
Be very careful introducing synthetics to Deisel engines and it is one reason why I recomend Amzoil, as I have first hand experiance with it.
Disclaimer, I have no affiliation with Amzoil, nor do I sell it. I just use it and personly know people using it.
Also go down to the Engines threads and you will find some good recent info on oils in there.
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:23   #3
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My normal recomendation on breakin are as follows.
Oil and filter changes at 50, 100 then every 100 hours.
Never change the oil without the filter.
At 50 hours also change the trans oil, probably ATF on yours.
Use only Delo 400, Rotella T, or Delvac brand oil for the first 500 hours.
Always run under a load, varying RPM.
After 25ish hours you can motor at steady speeds. With a turbo motor make sure you hear the turbo whistleing whil under power.
For generators, load them up turn on as many electrical devices as you can.
One final word, If you think you're donig damage by the way you operate the engine, I'll be happy with the way it's being operated. Don't baby it.
If it's going to break, break it under warranty.

On Synthetic oils. When you make the switch, ALL BREAK-IN STOPS. Please don't do this too early. The longer you can wait the better. I have several Westerbeke gas generators here with 6k - 11k + hours on them and never synthetic oil. Your engines were designed to run for 10k hours on "regular" oil.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:25   #4
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Alan and Pat...Thank you both very much for the information...exactly what I was looking for. I'll shy away from the synthetics for now.
A question about Chevron Delo...it has a very strong additive package...do you feel this is a good thing, or can too many "extras" be a detriment in any way? I'm leaning toward using Delo, as it is readily available, and seems to have a good reputation.
Thanks again, guys.
John
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:39   #5
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Delo is my prefered oil, partly due to availability but I run it in everything. Gas generators to my Cummins powered truck.
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Old 11-07-2006, 13:21   #6
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Pat is exactly right in all his comments. I would like to add one important extra point. Some Synthetics can be bad. But some semi-syns can be just as bad. (NOT saying Delo is). Some full synthetics don't "friction proof" and engine like others. The "trickery" ones can be leathal in Diesel engines as they are toooo slipery. The reason why I have so far had great results with the amzoil is that it doesn't seem to go overboard with it's wear protection like some do. The ONLY advantage ANY synthetic SHOULD have over mineral, is longer term stability, protection against acid build up and the ability to nutrilize it, and film protection to prevent dry parts corroding when the engine is not running. The main protection of any lubricating system is and should always be the filter. You can never have tooo many filters nor tooo many replacments. Long term engine life is due to clean oil and maintaining the clenlyness of the oil.
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Old 11-07-2006, 21:03   #7
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I use Rotella in everything that I have. Most of my cars have over 200000 miles on them and sometimes they smoke, Rotella nearly makes it stop.
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Old 11-07-2006, 21:21   #8
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With the new mota, when you say vary the revs, how often should the revs be changed? Do you mean 5mins at 1200 then 5 mins at 1500 then 5 mins at 2000rpm then 5 mins at 2500 etc.....?? for the first 25 hours?
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Old 11-07-2006, 22:15   #9
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Tolerance to break down in high thermal loading situations is a GREAT plus of synthetics. If I were changing my oil regularly, and never running the engine improperly, regular dino is just fine (with the appropriate service rating for your engine that is!). If I were going to abuse the engine, even slightly, I'd use a good synthetic after the break-in period. Note, I use synthetics in all my combustion motors. This allows me to change my oil when it is more convient for me, not just because I have reached 100 hours. But, all the oil experts generally agree, it is the contaminates in the oil that make it unsuitable now adays. Used to be viscosity breakdown. If you change the oil and your filters and are running a turbocharger, regular is just fine.

I use Mobil 1. Previously I was a confirmed Castrol GT user. My fun cars are air cooled, so oil discussions and formulation used to be one of my favoirite subjects. Makes me want to take the covers off and go for a drive!

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Old 11-07-2006, 23:04   #10
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Here's an interesting link.
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Old 12-07-2006, 16:31   #11
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SeaFox...I'm probably the last one on this thread that should be answering your question, but I'll give it a go...remember, I'm not that clever. I wear slip-on shoes for a reason.
RPM should be varied on a new engine so that the valves seat properly, and so that the cylinder wall does not "glaze" by running at any one constant speed. Glazing will prevent the seals from adequately sealing off the top-end, and you'll get a smoking, reduced-compression engine as a result.
There...did I get ANY of that right?
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Old 12-07-2006, 16:47   #12
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Usually, valves are lapped in to provide seating. Your oil is not going to affect valve seating. Spot on with the ring seating!
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Old 12-07-2006, 19:59   #13
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Thanks Meridian,
I have been giving it a few mins at different revs. Done 5 hours on the motor now. It is quite boring having to run around changing the revs all the time. Just want to kill it and put up the sails
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Old 12-07-2006, 21:07   #14
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Actually it's not the changing revs that has anything to do with the rings bedding in. You can infact run an engine at a set RPM and it won't affect it. Providing you work it right. The reason for changing RPM is for two reasons. One is changing heat levels. Changing heat levels changes tolerances in the motor. Changing tolerances help to bed in variuose close tolerance parts better as they expand and contract with the heat. Also changing RPM is all about working the engine by loading and unloading it with power. The important point is not to overwork the engine. You want to work it hard, but you also don't want improperly burning fuel being produced from to much work. And you don't want to over heat an engine which can be done when it is still tight.
Don't worry to much about changing the RPM Darryl, just make sure you load it well with speed, but don't allow it to black smoke or get too hot.
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Old 13-07-2006, 05:49   #15
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cheers Alan. I have been cruising around between 1500 and 2500 rpm.
It can get 3300 rpm. Only did that when we had the sea trial with the mechanic to see if he had got the prop right.
My old 40 hp has gone into a Cav 32 at Seaview. They will be burying their ass into the water with that! Can you believe it? A 40hp in a narrow 32ft boat.
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