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Old 17-01-2009, 13:07   #31
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I have a question about how you are using the sealant. If you are laying it down next to an already inplace fixture like a toe rail, you are doomed to failure. Have never seen any attempt to seal like this work for the long haul, no matter what the sealant. You are asking too much of the sealant. If it's a leaking toe rail or deck joint, you may have to pull the rail or pop the deck and reseal with the sealant sandwiched between the parts.

I'm not personally fond of most 3m sealants. Find they are harder to work with than polysulfides (LifeCaulk or 3m 101), and go off very quickly in the tube after it's opened. I've been using LifeCaulk since I got into boating and it's the only caulk I've been happy with.

5200 might be good if you are looking more for an adhesive than a caulk. Have heard it works very well on through deck chainplates where other sealants haven't from a number of sources.

For the guy who is happy with sillycone, my condolences. You WILL suffer through the error of your ways.

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Old 17-01-2009, 14:23   #32
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[/ROFL] Hey, at least there were no nuts to worry about losing...
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Old 29-05-2009, 06:20   #33
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
From the 3M “5200" one-part Polyurethane Adhesive Sealant Application Information, at the previously-linked Technical Data Sheet:

Surface Preparation:

There are waxes, coatings, sealants, grease, oil and other contaminants used in the marine industry, making it very important to clean all surfaces to be bonded before applying 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200.

Recommended procedures include cleaning with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner*, P. N. 08984.

Application of Adhesive Sealant:

Abrading the surfaces with a 180 grit to 220 grit abrasive, and subsequently wiping off residue, will enhance the bond strength.
Cut tip of the nozzle to desired bead size.
Puncture seal inside the threaded nozzle end and screw on nozzle.
If using a 10 fl. oz. cartridge, knock out the bottom seal with a hammer and place the cartridge in a caulk gun.
Apply 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 to the seam or part to be bonded. Position parts. Tool material to desired appearance.
Remove excess material with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner*, P. N. 08984.

Cleanup:

For cleaning 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 before it is cured, use a dry cloth to remove the majority of sealant, followed by a cloth damp with General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner*, P. N. 08984, toluene or acetone.
Cured 5200 can be removed mechanically with a knife, razor blade, or sanding.

Limitations:

- Alcohol should not be used in preparation for bonding as it will stop the curing process, causing the adhesive to fail..


- Heat resistance, due to the decreased value in bond strength at elevated temperatures, we do not recommend use of this product above 190̊F (88̊C).

- Do not apply at temperatures below 40̊F (4̊C) or on frost covered surfaces.
Do not apply at surface temperatures above 100̊F (38̊C).



- 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is not recommended for use as a teak deck seam sealer.
Extended exposure to chemicals (teak cleaners, oxalic acid, gasoline, strong solvents and other harsh chemicals) may cause permanent softening of the sealant.

- 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 is not recommended for the installation of glass, polycarbonate or acrylic windows that are not also mechanically fastened with a system designed by the manufacturer.
Inconsistent adhesion of these unprimed substrates, specific design of the window, and movement due to thermal expansion and flexing, may cause application failure. It is strongly recommended that the customer contact the window/port light/hatch manufacturer for recommendations on proper sealing procedures.

- When ushttp://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=242666#ing 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 with metals, it may be necessary to prime the surface to achieve adequate adhesion and durability of the bond. Scotch-Weld Structural Adhesive Primer EC-1945 B/A may be used for priming of most metals.
Limitations:

- Alcohol should not be used in preparation for bonding as it will stop the curing process, causing the adhesive to fail..

No wonder it doesn't work for me...
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Old 29-05-2009, 09:36   #34
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5200? Dont leave home without it!
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Old 30-05-2009, 10:36   #35
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Originally Posted by seacap View Post
Limitations:
- Alcohol should not be used in preparation for bonding as it will stop the curing process, causing the adhesive to fail.
No wonder it doesn't work for me...
It doesn't say that alcohol should not be (internally) consumed; just not applied topically.

Acohol induced bonding works for me !!!
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Old 31-05-2009, 09:03   #36
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Acohol induced bonding works for me !!!
Funniest award for you Gord!!!

Three cheers!
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Old 15-08-2009, 10:31   #37
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Rudder repair

HI, Hopfully someone can help me with this problem. Our Carolina 13.5 has a broken rudder. It was dropped on that end and it has to be replaced. Called the manufacturer and they sent me a Carolina 14 end piece and said to use 3M 5200. We have cut and sanded the peice off. How do you keep it on? Claps of some kind? My husband and I need your help!
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Old 15-08-2009, 12:43   #38
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I don't understand your problem. Did you break the tip off your rudder and are bonding a new tip to the bottom of the rudder?? It that is the case, doubt that gluing it on with 5200 would work but then 5200 has a reputation as a ferocious bonding agent. If you could insert a in a pin(s) into the new tip and into the rudder might have more faith in its long term viability. Best thing would be to a FRP wrap around the joint and fair it in.

If this is another type of repair, explain more fully.

Aloha
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Old 15-08-2009, 13:34   #39
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Hull to Keel Joint

I don't want to hijack this thread, but am looking for some advise. My keel attaches right at the hull (in other words there is no keel stub). The sealant/caulking material is now showing signs of minor cracking. Once I remove the cracking material, what sealant should I use. 5200? 4200? Polysulphides like sikaflex?
Thanks,
Tom
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Old 15-08-2009, 16:00   #40
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You could use 5200, but if you are just sealing and not needing any bonding strength, probably 3M 101 polysulphide would be great. It can be launched wet. If you want to sand it after applying, then 5200 would be better, but will take a while to get hard enough to sand
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Old 15-08-2009, 16:19   #41
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5M 5200 sucks?

My boat is a 26ft doubleender built 1980 in Sweden. When we were in NZ I found the area under the mast weak (deck stepped mast). We decided to reinforce with titanium alloy plate shaped to match the deck shape under the mast foot. We glued the plate with 3M 5200 FC. Now I am in Las Palmas, Gran Canaria (Spain) and there are some 15000 (fifteen thousand) nautical miles and 4 four ocean crossings between now and that repair.

Yes, I heard of 3M 5200 failing but only when applied in a way, or to materials that are not meant to be joined with it.

Yes, it goes dead if not used promptly after opening the container. But does the fact sheet not mention this? BTW One can extend the usability time to some extent by locking it tight and storing in a fridge.
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Old 17-08-2009, 20:14   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyR View Post
HI, Hopfully someone can help me with this problem. Our Carolina 13.5 has a broken rudder. It was dropped on that end and it has to be replaced. Called the manufacturer and they sent me a Carolina 14 end piece and said to use 3M 5200. We have cut and sanded the peice off. How do you keep it on? Claps of some kind? My husband and I need your help!
While 5200 is an adhesive as well as a sealer (first dreamed up to help with building truck trailers - it holds the trailer's skin in place and seals it, after the skin's screwed in place), using it solely as the "glue" to attach parts of a rudder together, without benefit of screws, glassing, or whatever? Uh... nah. Without seeing the pieces, it's hard to describe specific steps, but I'd spend some time on the West System web site or Google, looking for advice of fiberglass work and repairs.
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Old 17-08-2009, 21:09   #43
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Steve Dashew calculated that 5200 alone would be enough to stick a keel under a Sundeer. The only trouble would be when hitting the bottom or a rock or something, so he put keel bolts in anyway (phew!!).

But this just shows that the 5200 product is a great product. It is the user going wrong when selecting it for a job that it isn't suitable for.

And for thru hulls it isn't really a problem to use 5200. The same size hole saw that was used for putting in the thru-hull fitting will easily cut it out again.

cheers,
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Old 17-08-2009, 21:14   #44
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I use 5200 and am very happy with it. I use it for thru hulls, under cleats even under winch pads and lifeline stanchions. I used it 18 years ago when we had our cap rail demolished in a remote area. I could get wood but little else. Another Yachtie had several tubes of 5200 and suggested I use it. The boat did two Indian Ocean crossings and when I finally repaired the cap rail with the proper wood 10 years later found the seal still good and dry.

I learned a trick for taking off the fittings was to use a putty knife or paint scraper and a heat gun to get the bulk off or lift fittings then sand off the remainder. Also use mentholated spirits for clean up. It does not like direct sunlight. Can go gooey so for those conditions I use sikaflex DC.
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Old 17-08-2009, 22:07   #45
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5200 can also be cut with thin wire used like a cheese slicer. There are 5200 removal sprays which, IMNSHO, are a waste of time and money. After spraying a 5200 installation with one, absolutely nothing happened. A wire and razor were far more effective.

Nonetheless, in general, do not use 5200 on something you have some hopes of removing at some point in the future. 4200 or other sealants are a better choice.
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