No Fuel Problem

[S/V Elusive]

SET UP
4154 Perkins with mechanical fuel pump.
In-line RCI filter, In-line Racor, Spin on
In-line Priming Pump (elect.) normally off
Path= Tank, priming pump, RCI, Racor, Mech pump, Spin on, injector.

switchable input (output from tank) (qty. 2 uptake lines 1/4")
Depth of fuel tank ~ 3 feet / 1 meter
Distance from fuel tank to mechanical pump (4154) about 8 feet / 2.5 meters
Distance from fuel tank to priming pump about 4 feet 1.75 meter

PROBLEM
Engine stopped after about 15 minutes (on way out of harbor)
Checked fuel in Racor - NO FUEL

TROUBLESHOOTING
Turned on Priming Pump - NO FUEL to Racor, No fuel out of bleed valve on RCI, no fuel out of priming pump
Switched uptakes (inputs) and same thing - no fuel to anywhere

Pulled fuel hose from tank to priming pump - blew into it - could hear bubbles in tank.

Fuel pump will blow bubbles into small fuel container (through RCI filter) with open input (to fuel pump).

QUESTION(s)
What haven't I checked - what are my possible problems.

Also - about these dents I've wacked into my head (yes, I know about stopping beating it against the bulkhead) -- will they go away?

Thanks for helping!

[Boracay]

I have a small electric pump mounted after the Racor (recomended position).

It sounds like you have your filters and pump mounted above the top of the fuel surface and you have a tiny air leak (just enough to loose prime).

This would probably work OK as long as there are no air leaks and the tank is full.

If this is the case then the filters and pump will need to be mounted below the top of the fuel.

It might also be a good idea to check if the pump should be mounted after the filters.

My (sadly demised) old Ford had a lift pump from a Perkins catalogue. Checked out OK but didn't pump. If yours is not brand new this might be a good time to replace it. A 3'/1m head is on the outlier end of acceptable.

[S/V Elusive]

Think'n it might be suck'n a bit of air instead of fuel ehhh... hummmm... okay ... that'll be something to check out for sure! Thanks! I'm plenty open to other thought as well.

[Charlie]

I'm a little confused by your path. Could there be a vaccum leak in your priming pump? I once had a problem like that except that instead of no fuel coming out of the pump I had lots of air mixed in with the fuel. Decided to replace the fuel pump when one of my crew asked,"Hey what does this screw go to?" We looked around the pump and sure enough there was a screw missing. When we put it back in and tightened it down there was no more air in the fuel and the pump worked fine. Yours sure sounds like a vaccum leak somewhere. Not to blow smoke up your butt -- but they have those smoke machines to locate leaksI would plug the fuel line as close to the tank as I could and disconnect the line as close to the engine as I could and then blow smoke thru the line to see if there is a leak.

[S/V Elusive]

Clever idea ... I'll grab my neighbor and have him light up a stoggie and put that smoke to good use! hummm maybe not ... but it is really looking like a vacuum leak ... didn't know the pump could have that problem, but certainly wouldn't exclude that. I'm gonna be happily busy this weekend! Thanks guys!!

[Pblais]

If it is bellows fuel pump the bellows may be shot. You should be able to fill a racor even with a small air pin leak. if it won't pump then it is more likely that or the straw going into the tank. Just about any pump that can be regualted to say 6 pounds should work. Just don't get one of those fancy truck pumps that put out 70 pounds.

[never monday]

is there fuel in the tank?
If both pick ups are dry....I'd suspect a level gauge that is lieing too you.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by never monday

is there fuel in the tank?
If both pick ups are dry....I'd suspect a level gauge that is lieing too you.

I thought that too but he says when he blows into the tube he gets bubbles. Was the boat at an angle when motoring out?

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Charlie

I thought that too but he says when he blows into the tube he gets bubbles. Was the boat at an angle when motoring out?

but if the fuel is right at the level of the pick up. It'll disturb the surface and make noise. When the pump tries to suck it'll pull air because it's easier than the heavy fuel.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by never monday

but if the fuel is right at the level of the pick up. It'll disturb the surface and make noise. When the pump tries to suck it'll pull air because it's easier than the heavy fuel.

And that is why you can fix an engine and I can't

[Chief Engineer]

I have seen this problem and one other possibility is a pinhole(s) in the fuel pickup tube....as long as the fuel covers it...no problem.....if it isn't covering it...you will suck air....blowing down will still produce a bubbling sound as the air will take the path of least resistance...i.e. out the bottom instead of out the small hole/crack.

[S/V Elusive]

Okay - let me get busy checking this all out - as best I can. I'll post back with what I find.

[S/V Elusive]

well - interesting results (I'll not hold you all in suspense as was the case in another poster's thread!!) I disconnected the input and the output of the inline electronic fuel pump. Connected to the input of the pump and dropped a hose (1/4") into a container of diesel. Connected a hose to the output of the pump and into another container. Input container about a foot below the pump and 4 feet away. Turned the pump on ... let run for 2 minutes ...no output. I did, however, find some liquid in the input hose (not much, but it must of tried pulling).

So - I believe the pump is bad - but why would that cause the mechanical pump to not pull the fuel up?? I suppose the pump could have a leak internally. ???? Am I on the right track?

[Charlie]

Eliminate one problem at a time. Try hold ing the fuel above the mechanical pump and see if just the mechanical pump will feed the engine. If it works lower the fuel source. Perhaps the mechnical pump is not strong enough to pick the fuel up. I have had that problem on my generator. Good luck

[never monday]

Originally Posted by S/V Elusive

well - interesting results (I'll not hold you all in suspense as was the case in another poster's thread!!) I disconnected the input and the output of the inline electronic fuel pump. Connected to the input of the pump and dropped a hose (1/4") into a container of diesel. Connected a hose to the output of the pump and into another container. Input container about a foot below the pump and 4 feet away. Turned the pump on ... let run for 2 minutes ...no output. I did, however, find some liquid in the input hose (not much, but it must of tried pulling).

So - I believe the pump is bad - but why would that cause the mechanical pump to not pull the fuel up?? I suppose the pump could have a leak internally. ???? Am I on the right track?

get some more hose and bypass the electric pump. See if the engine runs.
I'm not a fan of electric pumps upstream of mech pumps.