New Engine - Same 4.107 over heating problem.

[slowpoker]

Pulling the head is not a simple job. Not much room to work, need to take off the exhaust manifold with maybe frozen bolts, water pumps, alternator, rocker assembly, injectors and many other parts. Over $1000 labor by a ' diesel mechanic' plus every extra part he can suggest and sell you. Cyl. Head has to be tested for cracks, valve seats, guides and all but you may not need any of this.
Yes, You will get a chance to check and re-do the valves and injectors, clean things up, upgrade a few and repaint. But.... a simple compression test will certainly tell you if you have to do all this.
Using an old injector (EBay, local injector mechanic, etc. ) with the internal parts removed and adapting a diesel high pressure gauge to it, will tell you so very much!!. And with the injectors out (that is all you would need to remove to do this whole engine test) you can have the spray pattern of your existing injectors looked at and fixed at the same time. No standard fitting will work to fit the head for a compression test, that's why not many 'mechanics' mention the compression test and will make more by just taking things apart and changing parts here and there while he's already there.
With this same hollow injector, can also blow compressed air into cylinder to check for real bubbles in the coolant!.
With the head off, you won't be able to test the liners, rings, etc.or than visually. Try to do the compression and blow air in tests first of all.
But... I am still hoping it may be an air bubble in the highest part of the system.
Make sure the head gasket, if you need to go that far, is the black composite with the silicone bead around the cylinders and water jackets, not the copper type.
Hoping for the best.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by joesail

Greetings engine experts.Once again am back to head problem or cracked cylinder? Am I the one unlucky guy who gets a defective engine from the factory. Still no water in the oil or oil in the water.

OK let the education begin......

If you are sure it is a head gasket test for it. First disconnect your water pump belt. Then open your coolant cap. Then start your engine and run for no more than 3 to 5 minutes. Observe your coolant and check for air bubbles. If none are coming up then you do not have an internal combustion leak to the coolant side. Stop the engine, install your water pump belt and coolant cap. Do you have a recovery tank for your coolant? The next thing to check is raw water flow. Disconnect the hose from the output of your raw water pump and start the engine for a minute and you should have a good flow, (full hose) if so reconnect. If not then check your pump impeller. Then remove the raw water hose after the heat exchanger and check the flow again. You should see the same flow as the pump flow. f not check you exchanger. If this is ok then go to your exhaust manifold and check the flow going into the manifold and then coming out of the manifold. If the flow is full hose then check the thermostat. 165 degrees seem low. In closed cooling systems the temperature can go higher as coolant will take more heat and boil at a higher temperature. Diesel engines can go up to 195 degrees... Is the engine running at proper RPM's? You will not go past the required RPM's as the governor will take over and prevent overrun. In neutral run up your throttle and see if it goes to governor speed. Let me know what you have found...

[danhunt]

I had this problem on my 4-107. Turned out, after decades of botom painting, the intake screen holes were so small it did not take much to plug it up. I kept it clean and routed through a wye valve to an alternative thru hull. At pull out I inspected the screen and realized the holes were starting to be painted shut. I drilled them back to metal and painted them anew. Now much less prone to getting blocked. Good luck. By the way that 4-107 was replaced with a 4-108 when the head gasket blew leading to a hydrolock and a broken crankshaft. Both engines run at about 145 degrees f.

[rolandcavanagh]

I had a "running too hot" problem with my westerbeke generator engine when I bought my boat, chased all the usual raw water issues, no joy. Finally found the elbow just after the strainer was closed down to less than a pencil diameter with minerals. An hour chiseling it clear, and proper temps since.

[joesail]

Originally Posted by NorthCoastJoe

How far of a run is the intake hose? If it is a long run the friction loss within the hose could be a problem solved with a larger hose. Is it possible to load the engine at the dock with a wide open garden hose feeding the raw pump? If it still over heats it would eliminate the raw side of the cooling from the problem. Then look toward the engine.

Good Idea. I'll try that. Does any one know how much water I should expect to pump? I don't know how much I am pumping per minute. I just know I have a lot of water exiting the exhaust port.

[joesail]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Pulling the head seems a little drastic at this point though, unless you have more information of which we're not aware...

I'd rather not pull the head but given that the pressure in the cooling system rises to 17+ PSI within 3-5 minutes of engine start I can only assume that over pressure could only be caused by a combustion leak. I've personally never seen a water pump reach 17 PSI in a cooling system. Would you agree?

[joesail]

Originally Posted by rolandcavanagh

I had a "running too hot" problem with my westerbeke generator engine when I bought my boat, chased all the usual raw water issues, no joy. Finally found the elbow just after the strainer was closed down to less than a pencil diameter with minerals. An hour chiseling it clear, and proper temps since.

All new fittings and hoses in this case.

[joesail]

Originally Posted by seabreez

. Let me know what you have found...[/SIZE][/FONT]

Thanks Seabreez. I have not checked flow at all of these locations. I should be at the boat this weekend. I'll run these test. I've been looking for away to verify the head gasket problem. I did remove the thermostat to look for bubbles but I didnt think to remove the belt first. That makes more sense.

[joesail]

Thanks Slowpoker. I'm not burning any oil and the rings only have 20 hours on them so failing a compression test will verify that I either have a blown gasket or cracked cylinder. If that is the case I've got to pull the head and I'd probably have the head pressure tested while its off in case the re-builders sold me a cracked head.

[joesail]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

The statement that the engine coolant pressure keeps rising well above the manufacturer recommended pressure says it all for me. I believe that you are on the right track with the plan to remove the head, test etc.

That's my general opinion too. I'm thinking that I need to resolve the pressure issue first. That may resolve the high temp issues. If not then I'll focus on the raw water side.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by joesail

I'd rather not pull the head but given that the pressure in the cooling system rises to 17+ PSI within 3-5 minutes of engine start I can only assume that over pressure could only be caused by a combustion leak. I've personally never seen a water pump reach 17 PSI in a cooling system. Would you agree?

If we're talking about the F/W circulation pump I agree. Not so sure about the raw water pump, but that is a positive displacement pump and could well pump at 17 psi+. Not to say that that is the problem though.

The issue with diagnosing things from afar is the dynamism of the interacting systems. I tend to agree that the likeliest culprit is the head or head gasket, but there are several unanswered questions.

Are the overheating problems you had with the original engine the same as the ones you're having with the Foley rebuild?

Was the Foley engine complete, or did you use ancillary components from your old engine, like the exhaust manifold or heat exchanger?

If you do decide to pull the head, I would do it methodically; i.e. have the components that you have to pull off to remove the head checked first before you go to the next item. A defective or leaking heat exchanger or exhaust manifold can have the same effects you're describing, so it makes sense to check them before moving on to the next (expensive) item.

How is the engine running otherwise. Is it smooth and clean burning with no misses or is it rough and smelly and steamy, or somewhere in between?

[jamhass]

No problem sourcing bearings and seals for either coolant or raw-water pumps on my Volvo 2003T even down in Mexico. Minor issue finding seals with SS springs, but simply pop the non-SS springs and replace with appropriate size O-ring.

[Mikado]

"Ordered a factory reman complete engine from Foley Engines in 2014."

Just curious, where has the engine dealer been thru all of this. I would think that they have installers and service folks that could identify the problem with their engine under warranty?

[ebsail]

I don't think this is the cause, but a boat your size should be running a prop around 15-17inches

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by joesail

Good Idea. I'll try that. Does any one know how much water I should expect to pump? I don't know how much I am pumping per minute. I just know I have a lot of water exiting the exhaust port.

Yes it would eliminate the raw water pump side of the source of the overheating.