Gas in Diesel - help!!

[Jim Cate]

Once again the mixed responses leave me confused!! We have t he folks who are sure that the engine is toasted, with severe damage to the bottom end likely, and we have the folks who say put some diesel back in it and run it. And some in between who reckon the injector pump will be dead, but are not worried about the rest of the engine.

BIG DIFFERENCE!

I hope never to have the problem to solve myself, but I do hope that the OP lets us know in some detail what any investigation into his engine reveals. I'd like to resolve this huge difference of opinion.

Jim

[Shenandoah]

Forum posters have accurately discussed things that can go wrong with this engine, but these problems do not have to happen. Some diesel engines are relatively picky on fuel, but if you didn't have enough detonation to send a rod through the side of the block, it may be OK.

I agree with those who question the condition of the fuel system. Gasoline would thin the lubricity of the fuel passing through the injection pump and the injectors. While this is serious damage, it's not necessarily the end of the engine.

First, I would pull the injectors and do a compression test. If the compression is OK, I would take them to a diesel shop for inspection and a pop test. All diesels have some minor blow-by, so it would also be in order to change the oil and filter ASAP to eliminate any residue of gas in the crankcase - and might do it again very quickly. If the injectors show wear, or worse, I would then pull the injection pump for inspection. The lubricity of modern ultra-low-sulfur diesel is significantly lower than the "old" stuff, and the pump may have survived the episode. Anything that avoids pulling and replacing the engine is going to be significantly cheaper.

People can get pretty picky when they are not footing the bill. I wouldn't be in such a hurry to ****-can the engine. Yes, its life may have been shortened, but you should go ahead and get the most you can out of it if you find out the damage was limited to the fuel system.

[sony2000]

A simple correction to the problem is to find a used Yanmar in approx. the same condition, and have the Marina switch the engines and keep the old one.
They pay and you wait until it runs. Check the serial numbers.
Eight hours of detonation has had its effect in causing damage.

[Charlie]

I'm curious Like Jim CAte. What is the real answer. If I was in this situation with no real answer this is what I would do:

1) pull the injectors and have them pop tested. I would ask the diesel injector shop what they thought of running gas through a diesel.

2) use a borescope to look and see if the cylinders are scored. You can buy one at Costco for $79. I think you can also get an attachment for your smart phone. Look at the cylinder walls for scoring

3) I would start taking the fuel out of the tank. I would insist that they take it out right away and if they didn't, depending on my freedom chips, I would hire a service or take it out put it in a jerri can and ask them where I could dump this mess. You can usually buy a 55 gallon drum for $20.

4) I would then replace all of the fuel lines. Probably not needed but I would charge that to the marina.

5) From there I would remove the injection pump and the fuel pump and have them rebuilt.

6) The entire time I would be asking for help from the marina with tools or storage or borrowing a car. I would do this in a very polite way. The goal of this is to guilt them into helping you. Stories of where you are supposed to be and at what time would also be told every time I talked to an employee or a manager. I would be a squeaky wheel without being obnoxious.

7) Finally I would find the tools needed to do a leak down test on the engine. You can buy the injector adapter for those yanmar engines from a tractor company in Texas. If someone wants the info send me a PM and I will take the time to look it up.

8) Keep giving the marina copies of the bills and the mechanics cost and parts etc. and ask them when you can expect reimbursement. Always make the request verbally and in writing.

They will want you off of the dock after that.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by hamburking

........... My old Pearson 30 originally had an atomic 4 (gas) but was repowered with a Volvo 2002 (diesel). However, the fuel fitting on deck still says GASOLINE. Every time I go to a fuel dock, they raise the alarm because I am asking them to put diesel fuel into a fitting that says GAS...I usually have to sign a waiver before they proceed.
..............

Wouldn't it make life easier to just replace the fitting with one that says "Diesel"?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Wouldn't it make life easier to just replace the fitting with one that says "Diesel"?

Agreed! Seems like a no-brainer to me, and would reduce the odds of the OP's situation developing on your boat. Comparing the cost of a new lid or a whole new fitting to what is being discussed in this thread... well, sheesh....

Jim

[Boatguy30]

I'm thinking the engine is fine. I really doubt the marina is going to replace the engine and an Alberg 30 out cruising is almost certainly uninsured.

Get a 3 gallon outboard tank w/ diesel! Hook it up and see how it runs. Unless you were running at very high rpm I really doubt much serious damages was done. Might add a quart of ATF to that 3 gallons for some more initial lubrication

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by Ariose

Our Alberg 30's 3GM30F Yanmar was fuelled in error with 1/2 a tank of gasoline added to the existing 1/2 tank of diesel. It ran for approximately 8 hours on this mix, labouring for much of that time (obviously!), before stopping completely. Thankfully, we had retreated from the Gulf Stream back toward the coast by that time.

We are receiving conflicting information on whether we can repair the damage (i.e. replace fuel injectors, etc.) or need a new engine. We are off-shore cruising, and need to be able to rely on our engine, so are concerned if we go the repair route, we may continue to be plagued with issues. At the same time, we like our oldie, previously reliable, simple engine that we are able to work on ourselves and are concerned if we go with a new engine, it will be beyond our layperson ability to service (although a new engine shouldn't need anything more than regular maintenance).

As always, we would appreciate any advice / experience others have to help inform our decision. By the way, the marina that made this error (after we questioned the fuel twice) will be footing the bill, so for a change, cost isn't an issue on this one.
Thanks, in advance, for your help.
Shirley & Tim

Since this is not your responsibility, do not attempt to do any work yourself. Just supervise and take notes and pictures. Avoid the others pointing the finger at you. Get the pros in to evaluate. Go for a new motor. Too much time run with contaminated fuel.

[Bill Seal]

I don't see how running 50% gasoline would score the cylinders, gas engines run 100% gasoline, and they have it in the cylinders for the entire intake stroke.
if the engine "labored" and died, you probably just wore out the injector pump.
Then again, it's not my dime. Maybe you can convince them it wore out the bottom paint and get them for a new bottom job.

[jeremiason]

I did the same thing with a 16 hp Petter two cylinder diesel on my 1977 Catalina 27.

I was on a short cruise about 50 miles form my home port. The dock attendant was ignoring me and tending to the commercial boats. I got pissy and filled the diesel tank with the green nozzle. Later, when I returned I noticed they were all green!

I left the fuel dock and got about 1000 yards before the engine sputtered and died.

I drained the fuel tank, refilled with diesel, changed out the fuel filter and bled the injectors. It started and ran great. I ran it for an hour and then replaced the filter to be on the safe side.

Later I had the mechanic check it... All was well.

Two years later, I sold the boat and that engine was still running great

[IolantheSF]

An important consideration is the volatility of gas versus diesel. Diesel has a high flashpoint, so air in the tank is not a hazard. Gasoline has a low flashpoint, so it evaporates, and drives the air out of the tank. Mixing the two results in something in between, with a fuel/air mixture in the tank. All you need at this point is a spark of any form, e.g. a fuel filler rubbing against the tank fill, and you will have an aircraft instead of a boat. Hope you got it all drained and disposed of...

[sailorboy53]

Originally Posted by Ariose

Our Alberg 30's 3GM30F Yanmar was fuelled in error with 1/2 a tank of gasoline added to the existing 1/2 tank of diesel. It ran for approximately 8 hours on this mix, labouring for much of that time (obviously!), before stopping completely. Thankfully, we had retreated from the Gulf Stream back toward the coast by that time.

We are receiving conflicting information on whether we can repair the damage (i.e. replace fuel injectors, etc.) or need a new engine. We are off-shore cruising, and need to be able to rely on our engine, so are concerned if we go the repair route, we may continue to be plagued with issues. At the same time, we like our oldie, previously reliable, simple engine that we are able to work on ourselves and are concerned if we go with a new engine, it will be beyond our layperson ability to service (although a new engine shouldn't need anything more than regular maintenance).

As always, we would appreciate any advice / experience others have to help inform our decision. By the way, the marina that made this error (after we questioned the fuel twice) will be footing the bill, so for a change, cost isn't an issue on this one.
Thanks, in advance, for your help.
Shirley & Tim

I am no mechanic but owned trucks for 40 years,I had the misfortune to get 25 gallons of gas in a 35 gallon step tank on a Mack I owned.Drove it 4 hours getting home then found the problem.Mack had to rebuilt injectors and Bosch fuel pump,It also burnt the valves so I needed 2 reconned heads and cracked the piston heads so 6 new pistons and liners.There was no scoring on the liners but all rod and main bearings were changed.
IMHO the least that should be done is rebuild the fuel system and pull the head as it is the only way to ascertain any damage done inside the motor which may or may not have happened on a 50/50 mix.

[Boatguy30]

I remember I once poured 6 gallons of gas from a jerry can into a diesel tank. I realized the mistake immediately, was sleepy from an overnight from Rio Dulce to Bay of Islands.

Used a small thirsty mate bilge pump to suck the gas off the top of the tank out the guage hole. Filled tank with diesel and was in Columbia a week later.

Back in the days before you could wax on for weeks online before even starting a repair.

[Ariose]

Originally Posted by Cadence

An interesting question about the labeling on the fill. I can see that happening.

Food for thought. I hope the OP responds on it.

Hi Cadence - Not sure what you are hoping I respond to re: labelling on the fill.

Our deck fill is just labelled "fuel", but we asked for diesel and were handed a nozzle from the diesel side of the pump, and the dockhand believed and then confirmed with someone with authority that he was giving us diesel... Does that help?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Ariose

Hi Cadence - Not sure what you are hoping I respond to re: labelling on the fill.

Our deck fill is just labelled "fuel", but we asked for diesel and were handed a nozzle from the diesel side of the pump, and the dockhand believed and then confirmed with someone with authority that he was giving us diesel... Does that help?

That makes the sequence of events clear. Obviously the incident was not related to the fill labeling, fuel to me is diesel, nor you making a mistake.
Thanks for the response. And again best of luck. And I am with you on liking the old non complicated diesels. The new ones are probably better on the road since a tow and a dealer are a phone call away.