Fuel pump for fuel polishing system - Continuous duty pump necessary?

[captpage]

Talk about fuel, (diesel) or “USABLE” Diesel in engines, basically diesel is now processed by cracking and not the old way of heat. Diesel being cracked will start to return to original state after 90 days. The old way diesel could set in 55 gal drums for years, and usuable to run a Diesel engine. As for polishing - pump out the fuel in a safe/proper container and let settle for a day or longer...the diesel 1 inch off the bottom to top is good to go. Most fuel tanks have and entrance hatch so the tank can be cleaned...the tank is the first filter in a diesel system. Now if you can not enter the tank, then a real polishing is a “whip” that flys around in the fuel tank, on the return feed, cleaning the walls of the tank. Cost is very high.
Don’t forget the fuel pick-up and screen at the end...clean all pipes, hoses, the complete system. Polishing does nothing for that. Big vessels with 10K gal day tanks (2 Each) after running 100k of fuel a month, the day tanks with purification at the end of the year have
3-5, 5 gallon buckets 3/4 full of slop.

Polishing is hard to prove if it helps or not - or just a way to make money off boaters

Cleaning fuel tank and plumbing is the best.

Now this works - so here goes - empty the fuel tank and use a portable diesel tank. Connect with a “Y” valve - great for sail boats to motor to sail zone/area and limit weight.

Ready to cruise?, fill-up and go with fresh fuel and a clean tank. Too much work for weekend sailor...just a thought for you. Don’t forget to turn on your radio and be safe.

GOD Speed & Calm Seas

[Pelagic]

On my 35-year-old steel motor sailor I’m often refilling in the Philippines via dubious shore side containers.

So, when doing the engine room refit, my logic went this way about managing the Tanks and fuel.

First Inspect and Clean all three Integral tanks thoroughly…. Done! confirmed Total capacity 2,400 liters

Next, plumb in steel piping and manifold system that pumps fuel to very bottom of each Tank beside sediment Drain

Replace the 3 old sediment drains with valves and plumbing to select and redistribute fuel as desired.

The key issue once you have got that far is to control and manage WHAT GOES INTO YOUR TANK!

So, I purchased a continuous duty gear pump, sized to pump 26 liters/minute for polishing but also plumbed so that it can be used for bunkering via suction thru an on-deck bunkering filter, rather than just gravity feed.

In those remote places, they are never in a hurry and happy that they don’t need to hand pump the barrels, so I should be able to load about 1,500 liters in one hour that passes thru 2 filters and into the wing tanks.

The other nice thing about using your own pump to suck fuel via a fixed connection is that they can see what the clean filter is picking up and any leaks only sucks in air.
Also drains you inboard bunker hose almost dry.

Unfortunately, that is the reality of 3rd worl remore bunkering conditions

[Dauntlessny]

Originally Posted by TCL

I'm trying to add a fuel polishing system -- essentially an additional Racor primary filter and 12V diesel transfer pump -- that can be run separately from the current filtration system. I've done a fair bit of research online, here and elsewhere, including reading this circa-2013 thread here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...her-56586.html

which has a lot of helpful discussion of various users' setups.

One question that remains open for me is whether a "continuous duty"-rated pump is a necessity. Some other sources I read before the above thread suggested yes, but some of the pumps mentioned in the above thread seem to be what the pump makers specify as rated for discontinuous or intermittent duty.

I have a single 95-gallon tank, so a smaller (2.6 gpm) pump (used with, e.g., Racor 120 gph filter) would have to run an hour+ to cycle through the tank twice. Ideally, I'd like to be able to run the polisher for several hours using successively smaller filters.

So trying to figure out whether I need a continuous duty-rated pump. Any help/thoughts would be greatly appreciated, including recs on pump models. Thanks.

(Current: 1979 Morgan 461, 2007 Perkins 4.236, single Racor 500 10micron primary, Napa Gold 3166 secondary, 12V electric priming pump (between primary and on-engine secondary, bypassing OEM lift pump); 95 gal tank shared with generator (Racor 500 10micron and Napa 3386 on generator).
I hope to swap the single Racor 500 engine primary for a dual Racor 500 setup, and use the existing primary filter for the fuel polishing circuit.)

I like your plan as is.
i have similar setup, though installed a larger Racor 900 for the Fuel polish duty.
Yes, as other's have said, you must have a continuous duty pump. You need to be able to leave it on for as long as it takes.
If your are polishing fuel and returning it to the same tank, it will take a long time to get the whole tank done. But that's OK. I will leave it on for 12 + hours as needed.

I'm not a fan of paper towels in the fuel system.

[exMaggieDrum]

I can't add a lot to this long thread but I just (tried) to clean my tank on my own this week. I have a small tank (45 gal) and it only had about a gal of fuel that could be sucked out by the fuel pick up pipe. I have dual Racors that can be switched separately with only one on at a time. There is a small engine filter on the Perkins 4-108.


I added a tee to the outlet of one of the Racors with a valve and long hose from there. I will wire tie the valve closed when I don't need it. I also have an existing electric pump that I think the previous owner used to prime the system as needed. I don't need to run it normally. It is between the tank pickup and the Racor inlets.


The fiberglass tank on my Goldenwave 42 has a largish access hatch that opens up to the forward part of the tank with partial access to a vertical baffle on the aft end. It slopes forward to a pipe/valve drain valve in the bilge. It is pretty hard to get to so I didn't want to use it. IT is about 1/2" above the very bottom of the tank. The boat is not well leveled to design as it is stern heavy so there is some fuel left in the forward part of the tank when all the fuel above the fuel pickup is out.



There was a fuel cleaning company (Petro-Clean) doing several boats on my dock so I asked them for a quote: US $600 for a 45gal tank with an existing access hatch. They can add a hatch for extra. They pump out and filter and then return from a clean drum. They swab the tank out when empty. If you have an existing hatch they also replace the gasket. In talking to them they admitted that it is not rocket science and that it is easy for an owner to do if they have a pump and filter set up and don't mind getting dirty and stinky.



I had not inspected nor cleaned the tank for the first 5 years I have used the boat. I did not get any water or crud when I ran all the fuel above the pickup pipe in the Racor and no discoloration. I pumped it into a diesel jug which I returned to the tank after cleaning. I hand pumped most of the remaining fuel into a glass jar. I found some floating crud but no obvious water. I use Biobor normally and only (so far) local fuel.


I have a Racor funnel filter (looks identical to the Mr. Funnel) which has a vertical filter element that is Teflon coated. The Teflon prevents water from going past and some crud but the filter is not fine so it is a first line of defense.



I sopped up the minor (a cup maybe?) remaining fuel from the bottom of the tank with both paper towels and oil sorbs using a pickup tool. I ran the towels along the bottom which was admittedly not a great swab job. I found a minor amount of black crud on the towels but very little actually. So I was happy with the end result.



What I found in the tank design was a shock though. There appeared to be one side of a large (2' diameter or so) tube fore and aft in the tank that was about 50% of the access under my hatch. I don't know if it is part of the baffle system or not. It must have part of the fuel in it as there isn't enough space in the part where I could get to the bottom on the port side. So I could not access that part of the tank at all. I don't know what it was or its purpose. It seems like just full vertical baffles would have been enough. It's a puzzle. If anybody has any ideas about it I would appreciate it.


A side benefit of the tee, valve, and long hose that I plumbed in to the Racor outlet is that I could use it to provide a jug of fuel to a sailor in need, and, I can "polish" all the fuel in the tank in the future if I thought necessary. I am okay with the Racors and engine filter keeping my fuel clean enough and available to the engine. I have better peace of mind that my tank is "clean" now before going offshore in the rough stuff.


On my precious Whitby 42, the engine stopped going around Cabo Corrientes in confused rough seas motoring into a stiff wind. My engine (Ford Lehman 80hp) engine pump went to dual Racors before going to the injection pump. The Racors were fine as was the engine fuel pump. The line from the tank to the engine pump was plugged, obviously by crud mixed up during the bumpy ride. I used my dinghy air pump to blow the crud back in to the tank and reprimed everything and got underway. (Although after a bad fright and nausea from working in the engine room in rough seas.) I never had another problem across the Pacific after that and I never did clean the tanks. Lucky I guess.


Just FYI. I do think there is some "polishing" going on when the fuel returned to the tank by the engine injection pump when running the engine although not fast. It would be more effective in rough seas I would think and not so much otherwise since the pickup cannot get 100% of the fuel in the bottom.

[mvmojo]

There is very little polishing done with a Ford Lehman 80. These engines do not return much fuel at all to the tank.

[OldBlueBear]

The key to your pump of any sort running cool especially under tropical / near tropical is to derate it which is what the military to to increase the mean time between failures , - but it costs more. Ideally you put in a motor of twice the required Horsepower or Kilowatts or whatever (746 Watts = 1 HP or 1Kw = 1.34 Hp to engineering accuracy). Also remember you need to derate your wiring (double the crossection - size - of the conductors especially when working with low voltage 48, 24 or worst 12 volts. As soon as you start to draw any significant current (Amps) you will have significant volt drop unless you have properly sized cables. I usually use 500A/ square inch as a basic figure 0.775 Amps/square mm for LV DC. Any motor you install needs proper fusing and a thermal trip incorporated within the motor housing, fire detector in close proximity and plenty of ventilation to aid with cooling in hot Wx.
hope that helps Capt Dave. (spirals).

[RLMM]

Contact Andy www.ktisystems.com He's the expert in this field.

[LargeMarge]

Continuous duty? Yes.

I weld professionally, and my ancient Miller is about the size of a double-door freezer, and weighs nearly as much as a Smart car. Youngsters often show at a job with some new digital rig, and they are always smaller. Heck, a Harley Davidson king-and-queen dresser is nimble compared to my rig.

Irregardless, we welders sometimes get in little races for inches laid. Several times, I witnessed a new welder melt into a mingled mess.

No warranty for exceeding the duty rating.

Saturday morning, we were at Coastal Farm and Ranch for 4H dime hotdogs and quarter burgers. I wandered back to the tanks and pump aisle. They carry the Fill-Rite line, and according to the boxrs, these are rated 'continuous duty'.

Flows start at 12gpm, and top at 26gpm at 12vdc. For 24vdc, double those flows.

On the tanks I fabbed for our puddle-jumper, I mounted the suction at the opposite end from the return.

And yet, every week, I see tanks with the return next to the suction. Sometimes, they share one fitting. [shakes head]

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

There is very little polishing done with a Ford Lehman 80. These engines do not return much fuel at all to the tank.

I'm just happy I never had another issue any way. Good to know for future reference.

[JimZeigler]

I have used a reefer pump (diesel fuel pump for refrigerated tractor trailer) for my polishing system for 5 years with no problems. I have also installed a Carter racing pump to prime my diesel system and allow me to bleed the air out of the lines without having to use the tiny pumping lever on the fuel pump. I have also plumbed that system to allow me to refill the Racor filter housings when I have disassemble them for cleaning.

[sailah]

I built my own fuel polisher, post is here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2377890

I use a Carter P4070 fuel pump at 72 GPH. Mine is wired thru a switch so that the polisher runs when the engine is running. Or I can run manually but I never do.

So it probably runs for hours at a time, say a 150 hours a season? And when I haul out and boat is behind my barn for winter, I'll manually run the pump for 8-12 hours a few times over the winter and certainly in the spring.

Pump was not very expensive and now going on it's 3rd season of flawless operation and a lot of diesel moved. Mine is also plumbed in a way I could empty my fuel tank in short order if needed.

My tank is 40 gals and with a nominal 72 GPH flow which will obviously be reduced, I feel like I get good turnover in the tank.

My fuel is always super pink and my Racors look like new at end of season but I change them anyways.

https://www.amazon.com/Carter-P4070-...s=carter+p4070

[parkstone bay]

I bought a made-up polishing kit that uses a little Facet pump plumbed to a Delphi HDF 296 filter with a control box of electronic smoke that has a timer up to 2 hours, So the Facet is being sold (by others) as good for up to 2 hours. But I just opened the filter up, after I moved some known dirty fuel a few weeks back. Apart from the crud in suspension, the bowl had sticky, quite solid, almost tar-like deposits in it. Needed alcohol and a toothbrush to shift them. I certainly wouldn't have liked that in my nice clean diesel.