Frantz Oil Cleaning System

[jackiepitts]

I was wondering if anyone out there has installed a Frantz Oil Cleaning System on there boat? I have one that I would like to install on my boat but would like to get some opinions on it first.

Best,

Mark

[GordMay]

Bypass Oil Filtration:

There is no shortage opinion on bypass oil filtres, such as “Frantz”, but there is an incredible paucity of any supporting evidence for their efficacy.

The Frantz filter uses a roll of standard-issue toilet paper as either a primary, or extra oil filter. The oil gets filtered through this roll, which Frantz claims filters out dirt and small particles better than traditional oil filters.

Frantz: http://www.wefilterit.com/index.htm
Puradyn: http://www.puradyn.com/
Oil Guard: http://www.oilguard.com/
Enviro Filtration: http://www.envirofiltration.com/
Gulf Coast: http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/
Kleenoil: www.kleenoilusa.com/

Mark,

I installed a Frantz filter last year on my 30 year old Westerbeke 4-154. I am an engineer who works in the bio-pharmaceutical business, where filtreation is one of the critical operations. The technical logic of the by-pass filter makes excellent sense. They have been around forever, and I don't see any reasons to select one vendor over the other.

On my engine I change the filter roll every 10 to 20 hours of operation. Every 2nd change of operation I send an oil sample out for analysis by an independent lab. In 200 hours of opertion without a complete oil change there has been no increase in the amount of dirt markers in the analysis. I count it as a major success.

As an aside, a larger version of this same technology is used in the military version of the hummer. Instead of a toilet paper roll they use paper towels. This is unusual filtration method and will never become popular because the filter media has to be changed often. That will keep it unusual and relatively rare, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Bill

[delmarrey]

You do have to be careful of the quality of paper that is used. We used them back in the 60's on farm tractors. The cheap paper would excrete small fibers and end up blocking small oil passages. It's best to run them with a regular filter down-line........................._/)

Originally Posted by delmarrey

...The cheap paper would excrete small fibers and end up blocking small oil passages. It's best to run them with a regular filter down-line........................._/)

You can't run bypass filters of any brand with a "regular" filter "downline". The back pressure from the standard oil filter would eliminate flow through the bypass filter.

Bypass filters do not replace the regular oil filter on the engine. It always stays in place. In fact in most engines the backpressure generated by the regular filter is what supplies the driving force for pushing the oil through the bypass filter.

Did that event of paper fibers actually happen to you, or was it mearly something that was talked about as possible? It seems impossible unless the roll was far too small for the housing, in which case it would shred with the oil flow. After all, any fibers that might come off would just be filtered out in short order as they came back to the filter.

The flow pattern in a properly installed bypass filter has all oil going to the engine's galleries going through the "regular" oil filter. The bypass filter takes a small slip stream of oil from the unfiltered side of the regular filter, "super filters" it and then sends it to the crankcase. From which is it picked up by the oil pump and before entering any "small oil passages" it has to go back through the regular oil filter.

The best paper for the filter is NOT the expensive toilet paper but the cheap single ply stuff. It is far denser on the roll. Filters better and holds together After a dozen operating hours in the engine it comes out in one piece. It is a bit difficult to explain without pictures handy, but a roll too small for the housing would not do any filtering and would likely fall apart and make a mess.

It the idea of using toilet paper as a filter offends you, some of the other manufacturers of bypass filters do manufacture special built filter eliments. See the links posted earlier in the thread.

Bill

[delmarrey]

The problem we had was that stray little fibers would collect on sharp corners, in small holes and the pump screen. This wasn't found out until a teardown.
Yes, a too small of roll was useless and a tight fitting one swelled up so bad it was hard to get out. One had to learn how big to make them from experience.

Also these were not installed as by-pass filters but as the main filter which probably makes a difference.

I guess I shouldn't have said cheap but rather loosely wraped. But I guess cheap ones are the loose wraped ones. The TP that is more like paper rather then tissue would be the best. Like the stuff at rest-stops, parks and gas stations. Less break down.

As for the placement, I was reflecting back to the old tractors where the filter housings were an attachement, unlike the screw-on's of today. You could basicly put on any filter that could be plumbed in. Kind of like the old Chevy 216/235 - 6 cyl'r motors.

Personally, I would think the by-pass filters would be great for diesels to help keep down the carbon/soot build up in the oil. And you can put a filter down line by installing it in the return line, they shouldn't have back pressure unless they are plugged. But one wouldn't need it down line if it still had the standard flow filter.

And some of the by-pass filters out there don't use TP anyway, they have an insert which is what I would buy......................._/)

[Alan Wheeler]

Yes Del, I can remember those old filters. They were the ONLY filter and to me, not a good one. I don't know if I would place one on my engine as a by-pass. Paper fibre is actually more abrasive than metal.
Plus at some point when the main oil filter gets fill, the bypass on the main filter is going to be pouring unfiltered oil back to the crankcase and so paper fibre could get back into the main oil flow through the galleries.

As the only filter on an engine a Frantz-type filter would be a disaster unless the engine plumbing was specially designed for it. The pressures required to push full oil flow through such a filter would be enormous!

To give a feel for it, at 40 psi the rated flow though these filters is something on the order of 1 liter per minute, something on the order of 10% of the total oil circulating flow in a typical sailboat sized engine.

When properly installed the used filter should be very hard to pull out. Frequently lost is the simple wire bail that fits in under the fitler to pull out the used roll. If you lose it or just forget to put it in when you change the filter you will have a very messy job to remove the old roll.

[jzk]

Man wouldn't it suck if you went through all the trouble to install a "better" oil filter for your engine, and you ended up just making matters worse by introducing paper fibers into your engine?

Originally Posted by jzk

Man wouldn't it suck if you went through all the trouble to install a "better" oil filter for your engine, and you ended up just making matters worse by introducing paper fibers into your engine?

IF it happened it would suck. But it doesn't happen. The negative comments above are either theoretical :

Plus at some point when the main oil filter gets fill, the bypass on the main filter is going to be pouring unfiltered oil back to the crankcase and so paper fibre could get back into the main oil flow through the galleries.

Or about systems that are not bypass filters at all:

Also these were not installed as by-pass filters but as the main filter which probably makes a difference.

I am not trying to sell these things, just trying to be sure that the appropriate information is passed on... Of course all those comments could be correct and my engine is just hours away from a total freeze up on hypothetical paper goo that the oil analysis doesn't see...

And as for paper being "more abrasive than metal". How so? Certainly paper is somewhat abrasive, and contains abrasive material (mostly metal flakes from processing equipment, btw). But if I held a gun to your head and forced you to chose between me pouring a tablespoon of iron fillings into your engine's valve train and a tablespoon of shredded toilet paper, would you really prefer the iron filings because they are less abrasive???? REALLY???

[Alan Wheeler]

I may not have been clear. When I was talking about "by-pass on the main filter" I am talking about a special valve that is located either in the filter canister or in the holder the canister screws onto. Once the canister is fill and starts obstructing flow, the by-pass valve opens and the oil by-passes the clogged filter. If it didn't, the filter canister would blow up like a ball and burst. So as your filter clogs, the unfiltered oil is simply by-passed back into the engine.
Yeup, paper fibre can be very abrasive. But then so can many things other than oil. But it is a known fact that paper will take the edge of a sharp blade very quickly. Fastest way to blunt a knife? cut paper with it.
Remember, metal particles from engine wear are often extremely flat and very fine. They have no where near the wearing ability as a ruff paper fibre does. The size of the paper fibre and its rougness acts like sand paper in a close tolerance oil film.

[Crest25]

Hi Mark,

Yes, I have installed a Frantz Oil Filter on two boats - both being MerCruisers with excellent results.
Getting into the back bilge area under the encing was the most difficult part of the job due to cramped room. As for the operation of the filter, it works perfectly to keep your engine oil clean and moisture-free. Yes, the filter also can absorb 6 ounces of condensation or water that gets into the lower end mixing with your lubrication system. I highly recommend the Marine unit version to prevent rust and corrosion issues and just keep cleaning the oil.

Incidentally, I never had to change my oil after installing it. The Frantz Filter will keep the oil that clean. Of course I may be prejudiced because after using the Frantz filter for many years, I became an authorized distributor.

Ed
www.FrantzOil.com

Originally Posted by jackiepitts

I was wondering if anyone out there has installed a Frantz Oil Cleaning System on there boat? I have one that I would like to install on my boat but would like to get some opinions on it first.

Best,

Mark

[Lancerbye]

I had a screw on version on a commercial boat for ten years. Saved me a lot of oil changes. I don't know how they would fair with newr type engines. The engine I had it on was a Chrysler-Nissan SD6-33. Naturally aspirated 6 cyl. diesel. 72HP@3600 RPM. Alot of hours went on that engine. I had adapted the existing system because filters were hard to find and expensive. I had previously had one on a Volvo B18 engine( not the screw on type). I found the best elements were the rolls that were sold for commercial use, hard packed, single ply.

[JiffyLube]

I used to have a Frantz filter on my old chevy big block truck, and that engine went over 200,000 miles before rebuild...that was real good for the old V-8s.

[Chief Engineer]

Oh, Good Grief!!!!