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Old 21-04-2013, 21:39   #16
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

If you dont have the dough to buy something you like up front, but have an income then building is a practical alternative. Its like saving up and buying the boat at the same time. It may be more time than a "project" boat (though not always), but at least you will know every nook & cranny of your build. Also, there's nothing more satisfying than creating something with own hands.
Looking at the boats mentioned they dont look like massive projects, so that's a positive.

I am building, but over here good cheap boats are few & far between, making the decision easier.
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Old 21-04-2013, 22:34   #17
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

Building a boat does not take long at all!
Building a big one, well not so easy.
I'd say if you want a cat, not a lot to choose from on a low budget. So build a small one, that might be fun.
Here is a simple small one:
Plans | Slider
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Old 21-04-2013, 22:46   #18
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Good peeps jumping in with suggestions, the only thing I can add is listen to them they know what they are talking about.
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Old 21-04-2013, 23:18   #19
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

Building a boat, even a small one, is a time intensive project. Go sailing for a while and see what you like! Also, there are lots of different clubs. It would be nice to find one where you feel that you fit in. Good Luck.
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Old 21-04-2013, 23:43   #20
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

60% buy and 40 % build. There is a plethora of unfinished boats in yards across the globe.. Only build if you "know" you will finish the job. Frankly, for a first boat, I guess I would probably say 90% buy and 10% build as your lack of sailing knowledge may lead to mistakes others would pick up instantly.
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Old 22-04-2013, 00:18   #21
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NigelD View Post
Hello all,
I've been lurking around here for a while now since I said hello a couple of years ago. Pleased to report that I've built a few miles up with my work sailing club and gained a huge increase in confidence. The problem is that the ops team at my club are a bunch of hateful begrudging (expletive deleted) who could not be more offputting in their attitude to newcomers to the club.

That's not a bad thing - it makes me 100% determined to get my own boat so I don't have to go near them any more.

So here's what I'm inviting your ridicule regarding - do I build or buy? I am very interested in building a boat since I like carpentry and have some rudimentary skills. I'm looking at a Janus catamaran (a Richard Woods design) or a Scarab 22 trimaran (a Ray Kendrick design). I'm still looking into that. But should I just buy something so I can get out on the water? Funds are low so it would be small and scabby. But the boat you've got is the right boat, right? I'm trying to gather the courage to do one or the other.

As I said, I invite your ridicule! And some sound advice. I sail in the UK and expect to be sailing shorthanded or singlehanded in the future.

Nigel.
Nothing to ridicule. Whether to build or buy really depends on what you want, and what's availble for sale, and how motivated you are.

IMO these days building a mono would be a waste of time and money. There are so many cheap second hand mono's available there's just no point. But you're thinking multihull....

Big cats - around 35' upward are still pretty expensive to buy, or if cheap are old or rough. It can still be worthwhile building one. Smaller ones less so though.

Best to have a good look around at what's for sale in your area, and see if you think there's value for your money there.

I can say not much beats the satisfaction of sailing a boat you built yourself.

If you do ddecide to build, you'll find plenty of people who'll say "you cant...". What they are actually saying is "I cant...".
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Old 22-04-2013, 04:09   #22
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

Since you are in the UK I suggest looking for an older Prout.I bought one in the sates that many passed on. There were many deck leaks, but the core had not been comprimised yet. Rebedding and clean up has been ongoing for the last year while living aboard on a mooring. Fast approaching the paint time now. The big plus is if the winds are right I can go for a sail. A slow way to do things as I never take enough apart that the boat is not able to move on it's own power be it sail or motor. Good Luck in your dream, I say buy
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Old 22-04-2013, 05:08   #23
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

I'm in agreement with the buy a fixer-upper rather than build crowd. You'll get to use those skills but be done with the project far sooner.

I used to own a Wharram TIKI 21, that happened to be a homebuilt fixer-upper. I didn't build but I did fix up. We had difficulty with insurance and resale wasn't that easy either (that's the homebuilt problem).

If you just must build, consider also James Wharram's designs which are fairly easy to build and go pretty well.

And I'd damn sure dump that club, sounds like a bunch of jerks. There must be friendlier places to hang out
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Old 22-04-2013, 06:58   #24
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

There is a thread on this site that illustrates building a multi hull, if you look around you can find there are several Cats out there that are partially finished for sale, several of them are good projects and much cheaper than buying a finished vessel. I would still advise you to spend as much time sailing other peoples vessels before deciding which one you want. Also if you have an interest in building one, I am sure there are people out there that you could help building theirs and gain the skills needed before starting your own.
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Old 22-04-2013, 07:53   #25
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...and, one more thing...getting insurance coverage for a home-built is very tough! Mauritz
No problem with Progressive Insurance, a bonus of being home built is your property tax is easier to adjust lower as the tax assessor has no comps.
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Old 22-04-2013, 11:31   #26
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

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Originally Posted by NigelD View Post
buy something so I can get out on the water? Funds are low so it would be small and scabby
Despite this thread being in the Multihull section (and OP talking about building small multis) I think Monos do fit into the term "something" (so can get out on the water), especially given that "funds are low". Others may also think Monos fit the terms "small" and "scabby" as well .

In any event, OP is in the UK - so not a lot of choice (chance?) of cheap, small and multi. Maybe an elderly Tiki 21 if yer can find one. and it is still seaworthy (plywood).
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Old 22-04-2013, 12:00   #27
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

My thanks to everyone for lots of good advice, and all in good spirits too! I'm not in the league of skill and experience that so many of you folks are on this forum so I appreciate your wisdom!

I think I would enjoy the building but I enjoy sailing more! As many of you said, nothing can replace time on the water and building the miles. At the moment I only expect to sail maybe on three or four more charters this YEAR and that's it then for months.....too slow.

I can't quote all of you here (although I've read everything that's been said) but I think the emerging message is - get my ass on the water. I agree! What was said about buying something that can actually sail, even if it needs a little (ie. a LOT!) of work seems wise to me. Fixing it in stages such that it can still sail - also great advice. As was pointed out, not a lot of suggestions for multihulls but maybe that's a UK thing - I don't see many like that in the Solent except for monster cruising cats. All in good time!

I reckon I've got to swallow my fears and get an old beater. Might even call it that. Egg Beater? I'll work on the name.... Thanks to everyone for posting and taking time to answer.

Nigel.
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Old 22-04-2013, 13:56   #28
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

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What was said about buying something that can actually sail, even if it needs a little (ie. a LOT!) of work seems wise to me. Fixing it in stages such that it can still sail - also great advice.
Decision made, now the fun starts - buying a boat!

Lots of opinions on what to buy (small and as a first boat), here is mine :-

1) If in the sub 25 foot market, especially sub 22 foot I would get a boat with an outboard. Overall an i/b is "better", but not so much you will greatly notice unless doing extended passages under motor. Main plus is that an o/b powered boat will be cheaper than an inboard, and given the vintage of the boats your budget will dictate the inboard is very likely to be original and the o/b not , not to say that the o/b will any good!, but swapping an o/b is a helluva lot cheaper and easier than an i/b....and lot easier to find a s/h outboard that will fit than an i/b.

2) Of course make her seaworthy, if not already - water coming up = bad, water coming down = a PITA, but can be lived with in moderation.....so don't bother resealing all the windows and the stanchions. and cleats - mastic is your freind ....and only then if the drip(s) outweigh the aggro.

You want the mast to stay up and the sails to work decently (age / use will make them less efficient and eventually beyond useless - even when no holes in them!). the keel well attached and same for the rudder (and still nicely connected to the tiller).........but don't get sucked into trying to make her "just so" and therefore pumping oodles of time and money into her, as you won't be getting any of that back upon resale! Boats same as everything else - can't turn a sows ear into a silks purse, the boats you will be looking at never looked like a 2013 Beneteau when new, nothing you do now will change that 20/30/40 years later. Aim for sound, clean and functional - and use the 10 foot test (things only have to look good from more than 10 feet away!, after a while you won't notice imperfections even closer than that!)......a good clean goes a long way and so does a splash of paint (but don't do the whole boat!). For mod cons limit self to stuff you can later unbolt for the next boat, or stuff that comes from Pound World .....i.e. if no cushions onboard it only really matters when you purchase (as an argument for a price drop!), and doesn't matter at all later if you never s;eep on her - and if you do ask how many berths you need, and then get to B&Q or Ebay etc for something you can kip on - will it fit? Of course not!. does it matter? not when you are asleep!........same for much else of mod cons and luxuries.

With a fair wind and bit of fore thought on the purchase you will sell her in a couple of years ..........but you will always look back on her with much affection - even though you will later appreciate a few more feet

3) don't get hung on making any "Great passages" - you can learn most things within a few miles of your home port.........including plenty of ways to sink and drown .

4) Get some training on Navigation (it's not rocket science) - don't become a slave to a Chartplotter. Yer wouldn't follow a Satnav blindly? - both best used when you know that they are making life easier. and they do!, just neither a substitute for own brain.
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Old 22-04-2013, 14:33   #29
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

Good points all DOJ, do spend some time learning navigation, Chapman's has a good book to help out, I am sure there are U.K. equivalents. Basic navigation is simple, Know where are are starting from and when, know where you are going, for the nonce keep to line of sight nav., also it will be a great help to know your tides and currents intimately as they can affect you as much or more than the wind depending on how hard the wind is blowing.
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Old 22-04-2013, 15:20   #30
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Re: You'll probably all laugh at me but...

You could always buy something smaller, like a beachcat, if you wanna get out on the water, and then you could have your project boat AND go sailing. ALthough, if you go sailing when will you find time to build a boat? ACtually, not so difficult. HWMO and I rebuilt (from bare hull) TWO yachts and still managed to spend tme sailing our beachcats. Only diference was, we had staff to do the laborious work for us....
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