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Old 28-02-2015, 05:16   #46
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
And that is what scares my wife - I am willing to take big risks because I never, ever, wanted to look back and say "I wish I'd done...." She knows I can take some real flyers on crazy stuff that others are convinced are dumb and she does not want this boat purchase to be one of those dumb things. My wife has a very long and detailed memory about some of my prior silly ideas.

Now,I'll get the boat of my dreams IF I can find someone here to convince her that a big, fast cat, with lots of AirCon, trash compactor, separate clothes washer and dryer, and four refrigerators/freezers is the answer to the questions she has not yet asked

Being in lust has its upsides, but if only one of you are in lust (with the boat, that is) then the decision may still be hinging on arriving at mutual lust.

IOW, wifey might not be hesitant due simply to the risk involved, but because of the risk involved AND the factoids about this specific boat.

Let's assume there's another cat out there somewhere with all the features SHE loves and you love it too. Similar size (or maybe at least volume), costs, etc. Maybe your discussion would be different under those circumstances.

Ask?

-Chris
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Old 28-02-2015, 06:10   #47
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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That's a pretty good way to look at things, provided you don't end up penniless at 80 and live to 105.

That could be a pretty crappy 25 yrs. A long time to think about some irrational purchase that broke the bank and landed you in a state run nursing home.

Now if you can afford to throw away $500k and still have plenty left over, then I'd vote the same way!


Yeah, there's that. Financial balance is certainly key. My point was only that the other side of the decision coin, not doing something in this case, can sometimes be a bummer too.

Sounds like TS already knew that.

-Chris
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Old 28-02-2015, 08:20   #48
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

Its a very nice boat, well outfitted. Ignore the naysaying nitpickers here. Cats don't sell well on the west coast, and this would be to your advantage (look at the Chris White cat in PV for a year or more). Make the best deal you can and enjoy your new lifestyle. Worry about resale value later. The resale picture is completely unknowable, particularly if you use it for any real length of time and take it far. Life is too short. ....or you can get a charter barge and spend all your time hating its light wind performance but have a little more comfort about resale values.
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Old 28-02-2015, 09:57   #49
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

i have the same problem three years ago when i was shopping for boat wanting a large cat i could live on anything over 40 foot was out of my range to buy, now i am selling mine a 42 solaris and still any boat like mine is in the 80s ,, when it was listed at 65,000 i had lookers saying it is well worth the asking price but still to much work left to do ,, now at 45,000 and looking for offers still no serious buyers out there but no 40 foot cats with a 18 foot beam any where near the price of mine ,,
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Old 28-02-2015, 10:46   #50
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

There are several different worlds in boating. The one occupied by people with very expensive 50+ ft boats is totally different to the one occupied by people with 35ft cheaper older boats. The gaps tend to be in steps not a slope. I would not have this boat unless you paid me because the running costs are way out of my league. Someone who CAN afford to run a 50ft cat can probably afford a new posh shiny one and considers this one old and tired. You sound like you love it for it's sailing ability but that is usually the last consideration for boats in this class. More often they are use as apartments or business meeting rooms.
So basically it to old and lacks prestige to the valuable in one market and to expensive to run to be valuable in the next one down.
If you like it offer half the asking price, I am serious you may get it accepted and your wife will think it is a bargain. worst that can happen is they say no. after 3 years paying dock fees etc they are going to be in the mood to write off and get shot...
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Old 28-02-2015, 10:50   #51
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
- We will lose money on the boat when we sell it
Not necessarily. Some well regarded boats hold their value, depending on what inflation does. I would put this design among those.

Quote:
- We will lose even more money on the boat over the years we have to operate it
And maintain it. This is where all the money goes.

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- We will be very limited in the locations the boat can be hauled
On the west coast. Many opportunities on the east coast and E Carib, although not as many as for narrower beams, obviously.

Dave
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Old 28-02-2015, 11:06   #52
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

I have no experience w/ cats just monohulls, but is it typical to have such a discrepancy in engine hours? strbrd twice as many as port? good luck in your hunt. dave
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Old 28-02-2015, 11:31   #53
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
There are several different worlds in boating. The one occupied by people with very expensive 50+ ft boats is totally different to the one occupied by people with 35ft cheaper older boats. The gaps tend to be in steps not a slope. I would not have this boat unless you paid me because the running costs are way out of my league. Someone who CAN afford to run a 50ft cat can probably afford a new posh shiny one and considers this one old and tired. You sound like you love it for it's sailing ability but that is usually the last consideration for boats in this class. More often they are use as apartments or business meeting rooms.
So basically it to old and lacks prestige to the valuable in one market and to expensive to run to be valuable in the next one down.
If you like it offer half the asking price, I am serious you may get it accepted and your wife will think it is a bargain. worst that can happen is they say no. after 3 years paying dock fees etc they are going to be in the mood to write off and get shot...

Boats in this class are all about the sailing ability. The boats used as apartments or business meeting rooms are a different class, not a better or worse class just different. I personally consider this as being one of the best designs there are, and if she has a high quality of build, she could be a really good buy.
I would agree on the upkeep expenses.
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Old 28-02-2015, 11:38   #54
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

"I would agree on the upkeep expenses."

"is it typical to have such a discrepancy in engine hours? strbrd twice as many as port?"


The engine hours are an oddity that has concerned me. The current captain says that the port engine hour meter has not worked for many years. ????

A new hour meter, or a minor wiring fix, is $50 and a few minutes work so why wasn't it done.

OTH - the owner just spent $3,500 on an inspection and tune up of both diesels. In the summer of 2014 he spent $6,000 to rebuild the saildrive lower ends.

It is hard to understand how such a minor detail (hour meter) is ignored while spending big bucks on the major items. I have spent a lot of time poking thru the systems and they all look to be in perfect repair. But, there is that hour meter thing that does not make sense.
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Old 28-02-2015, 11:50   #55
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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The engine hours are an oddity that has concerned me. The current captain says that the port engine hour meter has not worked for many years. ????
Sign me up for that sin, as well. Then you should assume the port engine has at least the same number of hours as the stbd. Mine are LCDs built into the tach and come on sometimes. But the engine still counts the hours. These may as well, so suggest you determine this. The actual number of hours for both may thus still be available.

Quote:
OTH - the owner just spent $3,500 on an inspection and tune up of both diesels. In the summer of 2014 he spent $6,000 to rebuild the saildrive lower ends.
Whoa! $6K to rebuild the sail drive lower units?? Way too much. WAY too much. Ask what "rebuild" means. I rework mine every couple of years. Very straightforward to do. Even replacing bearings (very infrequent) would be a DIY job just for the cost of parts.

Quote:
But, there is that hour meter thing that does not make sense.
Because I'm kinda guilty of the same crime, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on this. But get it fixed anyway.

Dave
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Old 28-02-2015, 11:58   #56
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

No, it is not typical. Usually a rebuild somewhere in the history. I typically use one engine to get out of the harbor and then shut off and sail. I run it up to temperature first. On my return I fire the other engine and balance my hours. My boat performs@ 6kts under one so no big deal and I have an end tie making docking under one ez.
An exception might be that one engine is running the engine driven refrigeration and therefore has more hours.
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Old 28-02-2015, 12:14   #57
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
"I would agree on the upkeep expenses."

"is it typical to have such a discrepancy in engine hours? strbrd twice as many as port?"


The engine hours are an oddity that has concerned me. The current captain says that the port engine hour meter has not worked for many years. ????

A new hour meter, or a minor wiring fix, is $50 and a few minutes work so why wasn't it done.

OTH - the owner just spent $3,500 on an inspection and tune up of both diesels. In the summer of 2014 he spent $6,000 to rebuild the saildrive lower ends.

It is hard to understand how such a minor detail (hour meter) is ignored while spending big bucks on the major items. I have spent a lot of time poking thru the systems and they all look to be in perfect repair. But, there is that hour meter thing that does not make sense.
You are way overthinking things.

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Old 28-02-2015, 12:36   #58
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

" He has no concerns about the cost of upkeep on Adagio and has no particular reason to sell her for less than what he thinks it is worth."
Ego. He's somewhere between unrealisitic and, after three years? Delusional. Don't waste your time.
Boats don't sell because of:
1- Failure to market/advertise them
2- Price
3- Condition
4- Location
and I'd argue probably in that priority and sequence.
Can't see a big market for that boat on the west coast, where's it gonna go in what sea conditions? Which also means, deduct the price of transporting it to the Carib or Med or wherever, from a realistic starting price. I've seen people install the most wonderful "upgrades" that buyers for the main item just can't be interested in. You know, like granite counters and stainless steel appliances and a Jacuzzi, in the cheapest house on the cheapest street?
Doesn't matter what he thinks it is worth, after three years he needs serious medication to consider what a realistic selling price is. And you should simply look at what similar (even roughly similar) cats cost, anywhere in the world, and make your one offer based on that. Then walk away and find another one. Tell him the offer is open for thirty days, goodbye.
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Old 28-02-2015, 13:28   #59
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

For what my opinion is worth (which probably ain't much) the boat is roomy, and has nice heads. but the style both in and out looks horribly dated. The folding chair at the navstation especially! I agree with the others that it is overpriced.

However, it sounds like you have spent a lot of time on the boat, know it's owner, have a friend who has skippered it, and it's history. That is really worth something.

As someone else mentioned, I recommend giving him a much lower offer, and then meeting somewhere in the middle. If he doesn't want to bring his price down, then he isn't interested in selling. The boat is worth a certain amount to him, but the thing is, it might not be worth that much to anyone else.

BTW, there are a lot of brand new boats you can get for 500K+. You can't get a new 50 foot cat at that price, but then again, you may not need something that big. If it's just for you and your wife, a 50 foot catamaran is probably more boat than you need. I would consider something smaller unless you have children or plan on a lot of guests.
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Old 28-02-2015, 13:38   #60
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Re: Why doesn't this beautiful catamaran sell?

$525,000?

What's the market done in the past three years? Maybe 12% per year? So...that's about 40% compounded over three years?

He's lost 40% on $525,000, nearly $210,000 already, just by holding to for more money. And that's before maintenance, insurance, devaluation and upkeep costs. Figure he'll have lost another $70,000+ if it isn't sold this year as well.

Those numbers might give him pause. He'll have lost HALF THE VALUE by the end of this year, and the hole only gets deeper.
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