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Old 11-05-2012, 07:27   #61
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Again, the idea is not to outrun it, but to dodge it.

First off I have to point out my original post was about using boat speed to take escape bad weather, mostly in relation to passages from South Florida to the Bahamas in winter months when strong winds from the North can whip up a very confused sea over the Gulf Stream. The ability to quickly make a passage to Bimini can make the difference between an easy trip and a hard one.

Next I will point out that there is really no such thing as a hurricane, rather there are specific hurricanes in specific places in relation to boats. In some cases it is very possible to use boat speed to reduce the intensity of the bad weather associated with a hurricane. By the same token in some cases it is not.

The key to outrunning any weather system depends on which side of the storm you are on, where the open water or sheltered port is, and most important your level of seamanship. It is also important to have access to good weather reports.

I remember the 2005 hurricane season very well for several reasons. It was the most active season in recorded history. There were several storms that seemed to be headed directly towards my home town of Tallahassee. However a detailed inspection of their tracks will show a zig zag path changing from East to West multiple times in the Gulf. While Katrina was the big name that year it basically missed me. Not so with Arelene and Dennis both of which uprooted treas close to my home.

This is one reason I will probably get a boat like an F31. If a year like 2005 happens again I can put the boat on a trailer and visit my brother in Ft. Collins, CO for a few months or perhaps go to Glen Canyon and sail in Lake Powell. Maybe I cant out run a hurricane with an Fboat in the water, but I bet it would be child's play to do it towing an Fboat on interstate at 70MPH.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:51   #62
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Re: what is the smallest boat you take blue water cruising?

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(...) It DID work.
OK.

But we will not build generalizations based on one-off cases. Also, we will not chose a boat based on the fact that 'someone outrun a storm in this design'.

Nothing wrong with sailing a small and a fast boat that may have the edge of sailing fast and away from a weather system. What IS wrong is building an assumption that this is the standing technique of managing bad weather in a small and fast boat.

If the weather is real bad, you may not be able to sail away from it. Hence, big or small, fast or slow, a boat must be built to take any and and all weather that can be encountered in the proposed navigation.

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Old 11-05-2012, 17:48   #63
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Re: what is the smallest boat you take blue water cruising?

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Really? Here's video of a cat sailing away from the forecast path of a cyclone:

Running From Cyclone Ului on Vimeo

It DID work.

When I went to bed last night I regretted what I said.

I know it can be done.

But you have to admit that most all cats out there cannot sail along at 15-20 knots. Maybe with fear of death??

If that is used for criteria in buying I surmise it won't be hard because there are only a couple of boats out there to check out.

What make boat is that?
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Old 11-05-2012, 17:57   #64
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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This is one reason I will probably get a boat like an F31. If a year like 2005 happens again I can put the boat on a trailer and visit my brother in Ft. Collins, CO for a few months or perhaps go to Glen Canyon and sail in Lake Powell. Maybe I cant out run a hurricane with an Fboat in the water, but I bet it would be child's play to do it towing an Fboat on interstate at 70MPH.

Sounds like you got it figured out.
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Old 11-05-2012, 19:41   #65
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

From Phil Berman

A faster boat is also a safer boat, as the faster boat is exposed to fewer storms. A catamaran that can regularly pull 220 mile days on a passage from Panama to Hawaii will be exposed to far less storm risk than the monohull that has a hard time regularly pulling 175 mile days. With good weather routing information a Multihull can avoid most serious weather and, at worst, place itself on the most favorable position to avoid the brunt of a storm. Since most multihulls can run before a storm between 10 and 15 knots they offer considerably more options and therefore safety than a boat that has difficulty topping out over 9 knots.
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Old 11-05-2012, 19:44   #66
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

Couldn't agree more.
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Old 11-05-2012, 19:47   #67
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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What is the smallest size and type cat you would go blue water cruising in?...
Well in 1986 Tony Laurent and Daniel Pradel sailed a Hobie 18 from Dakar, Senegal on Africaís west coast, to Pointe a Pitre, Guadeloupe, part of the French Antilles in the Caribbean

Kim Miller's Hobie Cat Pages. Front mounted touring tramp

Small enough for you?

Marshall
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Old 11-05-2012, 19:49   #68
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

From Gregor Tarjan



Catamaran speed is relative. Personally, I find, the most important benefit of speed of a multihull is the ability to outrun bad weather. Being able to average 11 knots on a catamaran rather than 8 knots on a monohull, will give you more options in your strategy to avoid bad weather. Getting to your destination quicker and shaving off days on a transatlantic voyage will simply mean that you have, mathematically estimated, less chance of getting the toilet clogged, running into a submerged container or falling overboard.
Thanks to advances in radar, satellite and computer technology, a five-day forecast today is as accurate as a two-day forecast was in 1980. A multihull’s higher speed will greatly contribute to easier and safer planning of ocean passages around weather windows, since exposure time will be less and meteorological prediction for shorter periods more accurate. Being able to sail faster will also introduce the concept of apparent wind to the strategy of efficient sailing.
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Old 11-05-2012, 20:37   #69
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising

Rory MacDougall circumnavigated in a 21' Wharram catamaran, also entered the singlehanded transatlantic and placed well.

The late Thomas Firth Jones sailed a 23' Wharram Hinemoa with his wife through a hurricane from the USA East Coast to Bermuda.

Wharram must be taken seriously about bluewater catamaran design, and his declared "smallest offshore catamaran" is his Tiki 26, which might be his most popular model.

The term smallest has to be catagorized by how many people are on board, what is the longest passage offshore, what areas are you going to sail, and what level of comfort will you accept.

The big problem these days is having a big enough boat to take along creature comforts, which become neccessities for some sailors.
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Old 11-05-2012, 20:40   #70
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Re: what is the smallest boat you take blue water cruising?

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When I went to bed last night I regretted what I said.

I know it can be done.

But you have to admit that most all cats out there cannot sail along at 15-20 knots. Maybe with fear of death??

If that is used for criteria in buying I surmise it won't be hard because there are only a couple of boats out there to check out.

What make boat is that?
It's one of Bob Oram's designs. But again, my point is that you don't NEED to be able to sail faster than a cyclone or other storm travels. You don't run AWAY from it. You run away from it's projected path. And generally (if it's a cyclone) you'd run toward the equator, staying in the "navigable" semi-circle.

If you can put 150 miles between you and where the cyclone is going, you're going to be safe. And plenty of boats can cover 150 miles in a day.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:43   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
From Gregor Tarjan

Catamaran speed is relative. Personally, I find, the most important benefit of speed of a multihull is the ability to outrun bad weather. Being able to average 11 knots on a catamaran rather than 8 knots on a monohull, will give you more options in your strategy to avoid bad weather. Getting to your destination quicker and shaving off days on a transatlantic voyage will simply mean that you have, mathematically estimated, less chance of getting the toilet clogged, running into a submerged container or falling overboard.
Thanks to advances in radar, satellite and computer technology, a five-day forecast today is as accurate as a two-day forecast was in 1980. A multihull’s higher speed will greatly contribute to easier and safer planning of ocean passages around weather windows, since exposure time will be less and meteorological prediction for shorter periods more accurate. Being able to sail faster will also introduce the concept of apparent wind to the strategy of efficient sailing.
This and Phil Bermans statement of running before a storm at 10-15 kts sounds all rosey but how many cats can average 11 kts? That's 264 miles a day..I can't think of any cruising cats that could average that day in and day out. I love cats but some of the statements made by the brokers are ridiculous.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:53   #72
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

The problem with counting on being able to sail fast to get away from a storm's path, at least in the Tropics, is that the big ones will kill the Tradewinds before they arrive in your area, so you won't have much wind at all. You'll be motoring, so you'd better dial that into your strategies.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:17   #73
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
From Gregor Tarjan



Catamaran speed is relative. Personally, I find, the most important benefit of speed of a multihull is the ability to outrun bad weather. Being able to average 11 knots on a catamaran rather than 8 knots on a monohull, will give you more options in your strategy to avoid bad weather. Getting to your destination quicker and shaving off days on a transatlantic voyage will simply mean that you have, mathematically estimated, less chance of getting the toilet clogged, running into a submerged container or falling overboard.
Thanks to advances in radar, satellite and computer technology, a five-day forecast today is as accurate as a two-day forecast was in 1980. A multihullís higher speed will greatly contribute to easier and safer planning of ocean passages around weather windows, since exposure time will be less and meteorological prediction for shorter periods more accurate. Being able to sail faster will also introduce the concept of apparent wind to the strategy of efficient sailing.
Please find another font color! That fuchsia is awful on the eyes.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:27   #74
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Re: What is the Smallest Multihull You Can Take Blue Water Cruising?

I just sailed a Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran from Fiji to Bundaberg and then down to Port Stephens, Australia,
Where I got washed up on the beach while sleeping and at anchor,

I cant sail for shit, But I was doing 5 to 8 knots most days, 147 NM one day, That was the only day I actually worked it out,

I was loaded to the hilt, Wind was always in the wrong direction for me,

I was comfortable, Not once did I feel unsafe in her, Even 10 metre waves didnt bother her,

6 hours on the nose in 5 metre waves, 3 days on the nose in 4 metre waves, They werent fun, but she got me there,

Gemini might make them cheap, But they didnt remove any of the Seaworthines of this vessel.

600 miles from the nearest land, I think that would classify as Blue Water,

Pacific Ocean, Coral Sea and the Tasman Sea, and I was heading for the Southern Ocean and Bass Straight, Home,

Two people on board, Just right,

Plus, I single handed her as well.

Most was at about 30 degrees beam on,

Did a few 12 knot scorches, But speed wasnt my thing, I just wanted to get home in one piece with out destroying or breaking my new boat,

The 7 knots was on the Genoa, Putting up the mainsail was mostly a waste of time, as it did not make any significant difference to the speed of the boat, But like I said, I cant sail for shit,

Would I do it again, You Betcha, I would take my Gemini any where in the world, But not the Ice regions, I dont like the cold,

I will learn to sail her first tho, Next time,

She will be back in the water within 6 months, Both keels fully repaired and up to Australian Survey Standards and a new strong back in her keels,
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:56   #75
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Re: what is the smallest multihull you can take blue water cruising?

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Please find another font color! That fuchsia is awful on the eyes.
Isn't it just so I fixed it.

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