Some ammunition please

[Tnflakbait]

I am planning a cruise aboard my 33' csk catamaran. This is a small catamaran. In my opinion it is about as small as you can go and have a real nacelle cabin with connections to the hulls. At 4000 lbs (DRY) she is light and fast. My planned cruise is from Southern California to mainland Mexico, South Pacific, then back to So Cal via Hawaii. This is a plan for two years.
A catamaran of this size and displacement has very little load capacity. However it does have enough for two people. There are many considerations one must make in order to keep the wieght low. EVERYTHING that goes on the boat is lightweight (for what it is). For example silverware is titanium and so on. A powersurvivor 40 keeps the water weight low. The ability to sail very well in light airs negates carrying lots of gas. And so on.
My previous boat was a Catalina 27 (great boat). The 43 year old 33 foot plywood cat is twice as fast and 3 times bigger. It is a very safe feeling boat. Sailing a cat requires reefing sooner and paying close attention to the wind.
I will say that this style of cruising is not for everyone. It is more minimal and raw. A throwback to 40 years ago (but with solar and gps). Since I am 26 years old its really no big deal. I plan on going cruising now. I had the choice between some slightly longer monos, but decided on the cat because it felt right to me. If you want to carry rocks and other heavy objects, and have a very large interior on a cat I suggest going over 40'. Otherwise you may be disappointed with the performance.

Good luck.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...p?i=3540&c=501


PS In my opinion steel is only really good on a cat over 120'


Some fun you just can't get on a 33' mono...

YouTube - Catamaran sailing

[rdbeales]

I'm 28 and plan to abscond by 2009, so speed is more of a concern than comfort for me as well. Have you had any experiences in really rough weather yet. How did the cat do in your opinion?
Thanks for the honest weight advice

[TabbyCat]

rdb,

Why is STEEL one of your criteria?

Speed is certainly not to be dismissed, but in the day in day out life of cruising (especially coastal cruising), it diminishes in importance. Having said that, there is still a lot more joy on board when we are sailing and sailing fast, than when we are slow and/or motoring.

Good Luck in convincing your brother,
Fair Winds,
Susan & Mike

[rdbeales]

I've hit things with boats, small power runabouts and little day sailers, and done some damage. A larger boat has so much inertia it would be much more damaged. And I've only hit sand and floating debris.

So to answer your question, a steel boat won't crack open if I run aground. I know I know, sailing skill and safety, but it could happen and I'd prefer to prepare for the worst. I've done so quite thoroughly in my travels and it really pays off sometimes.

In short, I'd like to be able to crash into things.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by rdbeales

I've hit things with boats, small power runabouts and little day sailers, and done some damage. A larger boat has so much inertia it would be much more damaged. And I've only hit sand and floating debris.

So to answer your question, a steel boat won't crack open if I run aground. I know I know, sailing skill and safety, but it could happen and I'd prefer to prepare for the worst. I've done so quite thoroughly in my travels and it really pays off sometimes.

In short, I'd like to be able to crash into things.

Steel won't crack open? There are thousands of rusting hulks littered around the bottoms of the worlds oceans that contradict that.

I know of a lightweight composite catamaran that was run onto a reef at 6 knots and suffered no damage. It damaged it's rudders while reversing off the reef, but the initial impact didn't hurt it. Would a steel boat fare as well? And if it did, would it be able to reverse itself off the reef?

I OWN a steel boat, and I think it would suffer considerable damage going on to a reef at 6 kts. I KNOW if it did it would be stuck fast. The weight gives it so much more momentum - it would drive itself much further onto the rocks.

Small monohulls and anything but really big cats don't suit steel. Aluminium would be a better alternative if you really intend going around ramming things. Or a medium to large steel mono.

[Steve Rust]

Maybe a steel boat is not a good idea. With a fiberglass boat you may be more careful and not so cavalier about running into things. Running aground on a coral reef in Florida could cost you many thousands of dollars in fines if the authorities find out. If you must go with steel get a monohull. A steel multihull is not practical in the size range you are interested.
If you have an interest in multihulls you have to wrap your head around the idea that lightweight is not unseaworthy.

[Tnflakbait]

Originally Posted by rdbeales

I'm 28 and plan to abscond by 2009, so speed is more of a concern than comfort for me as well. Have you had any experiences in really rough weather yet. How did the cat do in your opinion?
Thanks for the honest weight advice

Glad I could be of some help. The boat has performed well in all weather we have had her out in. No real bad weather yet... We have been out in about 25 knots of wind reaching and had no problem with a reef in the main and a reefed jib. Since the boat is from 1964 there have been many systems, concepts, and hardware peices that have been updated. I have full confidence that the boat will sail upwind untill about 30-35 kt. Then you have to fall off.
Good freeboard and wingbridge clearance make the boat seaworthy in large seas even upwind. You still get the occasional WHACK by a wave from time to time underneath. The boat will surf large ocean swells with confidence.
What ever cat you get should be doing what it was designed for. Even though my boat is old light and small it was designed as an ORCA cat. (Ocean Racing Catamaran Association.) It is designed for offshore passages like the Transpac, etc. I am also very aware of the heritage and accomplishments of the CSK design. As well as flaws and strengths.
Open bridgedeck cats are nice but you'll want a dodger at least. I built the cabin on my boat, but the original owner sailed the boat 25,000 miles with an open bridgedeck.

[Mustang Sally]

Ok here's our take. We had a Catalina 42 and left Canada 1 year ago, sailed 4500 miles in 10 months. Now as the past Canadian J22 and J24 champion with racing in my blood we switched to a cat. The Catalina was a good rough tough offshore boat but the cat is much faster and more comfortable. Yes, it sails like a barge and does not feel like a monohull but we love cruising at 9-14 knots. Also no rollling in anchorages and tons of room. Now all the old salts say, yea but it will flip, well it might, but it won't sink. We love the cat and won't go back.........cause remember, if it's not a cat, it's a dog!!

[cburger]

Hey Salley, just remeber dogs are more loyal than cats, prettier too!

[beau]

I have had both mono's and multihulls and I do like the shallow draft/non heeling/faster aspects of a multihull. However the interior layout of a catamaran leaves me cold, and they really do not have practical space in them until you reach 40 ft or more.
Why not look at trimarans (cruising trimarans) they have all the advantages of a multihull but the interior is more like a monohull and they offer better space utilisation under 40 ft.
I am building mine out of aluminium

[rdbeales]

I started another post about open bridge deck cats here where I admit I'm trying to go a little to far with this first serious purchase. So here's a reissue of the things I'm thinking about.

Cat-for speed and stability, I'm not crossing any oceans for a while, so it doesn't need to be astrictly ble water boat
I'm going to be minimalist, no luxurious saloon, I want itt to be closer to camping.
I looked at a Conser Warrior that was really close to my house. I liked that it was designed to run with both hulls in the water, correct me if I'm wrong, and I liked the hull beam on a boat that is half racer.

I didn't like the daggerboards that don't kick up. I know it would take more room up in the Hull but, having a swinging board seems like a necessary feature to avoid catastrophic damage if you hit a floating piling or some other flotsam. Any ideas about models with boards that kick up.
I've gathered that windward performance is essential to not getting blown into the rocks so a boat with boards seems preferable if I can find one that has swinging boards

Thanks everyone for you input and insight. Hopefully I'll be on here in 5 years sharing some of my experiences

[Tropic Cat]

It might be a good idea to check out the older Gemini 3200, or 3400 for a dagger board cat or a small Catalac like mine. No boards but over 7 knots you don't need them.

Catain Doug (Mustand Sally) it's not often we get such a distinguished convert to the darkside. Welcome to the Forum.

[Tnflakbait]

Originally Posted by rdbeales

I looked at a Conser Warrior that was really close to my house. I liked that it was designed to run with both hulls in the water, correct me if I'm wrong, and I liked the hull beam on a boat that is half racer.

I know for a fact that the Warrior 29 is a great boat. It is designed by Vince Bartolone, the same guy that designed my boat! This guy was truly an artist and designed some great looking boats. A friend of mine has one of these and it has a lot going for it. It is very fast with narrow symetrical hulls. Daggerboards aren't really important if you are on a reach or further off the wind with this boat. The Warrior is very well built and very light. It is also more seaworthy than some new competetors. You can surf HUGE swells in this boat with confidence. I find it to be a safer boat than the Reynolds 33. The larger Consers (40, 47) are based largely on this design. With a nice boom tent you're set up for some camp cruising. you can even stick a small head or Pora Potty in a hull. I believe this boat is trailerable as well.
There is a Warrior that needs a little elbow grease in NJ for sale.

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

[rdbeales]

I went up and looked that Warrior over. I'm not sure if I have the time to fix it up or what I'm gonna do but it definitely is tempting...

My brother pointed out to me that most cat owners sail their boats, And sail them often, while many people by monohulls that sit in a marina and are professionaly maintained as ornaments. He showed me two pearson 36s that he looked at that were under 40k and almost like new

[Steve Rust]

Not to long ago I came across an older issue of the magazine Sail with a article about a couple of guys sailing a Warrior 29 cat to the Rio Dulce from the U. S. gulf coast. The only problem they had was some loose bolts on a rudder fitting. They beached the boat somewhere in Mexico , fixed it and went on their way.