One off vs production (used)

[sailorboy1]

I bet on a 1 off it REALLY depends on the quality of the craftsmen doing the work. Where on a production boat it is more the design of the assembly and construction process. It's kind of like the skill of the craftsman with a circular saw compared to how well programmed the CNC machine was.

[Suijin]

One of the benefits of production boats is the continued refinement to the design that happens with decent manufacturers. There is always some aspect to a boat’s design that turns out, after it’s built, to be unexpectedly problematic or at least subject to improvement. Usually there are quite a few.

Valiants are an excellent example. Produced over 30 years out of the same hull mold, one from the 70’s is a very different boat from one from the 00’s, and not because of age. Bob Perry tweaked the rig and keel shape several times, based on feedback from owners, and lots of small production details changed over the years to ease access, maintenance etc.

Later boats are better boats due to all those changes.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Palarran

This is really a useless post. It's not even coherent.

To the OP
Most custom boats that I've seen demand quite a premium price compared to production boats. And when I look at them the finish level isn't as high.
Like this one.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...g#.W5WLHehKjic

I totally agree, useless post.

That being said I have a lot of thoughts on this topic as we bought a one off 50’ cat and cruised her for a decade.

Sold her in NZ and may buy her back.

PM me if you want more details. The threads above about cover it.

[admiralslater]

As life long sailer of one offs built by my father and other people in our multihull club ,I think that one of the big advantages of multihulls is the large amount of one offs . When we where shopping for a large cat 6 years ago we only looked at one offs . The Chris white 48 was one of them . A perfect boat in many ways , also a custom Crowther 47 called key of D which had a motoring range of 3000 miles (one engine at 4 knots ). Just recently a beautifull 48 ft cat out of cedar strip in mint condition was offered at 200us .if you ask the right questions and do your research you can get a great boat at not much money

[Tetepare]

Food for thought:


I have a Catalina 30, which is as "production" as a Honda Accord.


If I need a part, I call catalinadirect.com and two days later I have it.


When I needed to replace the fuel tank, I looked up the manufacturer and in 10 days had an identical stainless tank for $250.


My home is "custom" (as in, half-aszed construction, not big money custom) and it is a real PITA every time I have a project. I'm not a big fan of custom manufacturing.

[Cheechako]

-One off boats are VERY expensive.
-You will never know what you got until it's done and paid for. There are boats out there that have design flaws!
-Building or remodeling a home has wrecked many a marriage due to the stress involved, bad contractors, deadlines not met, etc. Homes are a drop in the bucket compared with those issues in building a boat.
-The resale value of custom boats is generally low compared with known boats. You're going to pay much more and get much less back.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Food for thought:


I have a Catalina 30, which is as "production" as a Honda Accord.


If I need a part, I call catalinadirect.com and two days later I have it.


When I needed to replace the fuel tank, I looked up the manufacturer and in 10 days had an identical stainless tank for $250.


My home is "custom" (as in, half-aszed construction, not big money custom) and it is a real PITA every time I have a project. I'm not a big fan of custom manufacturing.

Very few boats actually manufactured their own hardware. So replacement is not difficult

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by riki

Thanx for all replies.
I think that the car example is a bit extreme, but I get the point.
But i think that if a boat is found that meets the taste, probably we ca talk about a better overall quality for less price considering the above.
I was talking with a broker some time ago and he was telling me about how the average quality in last years production is getting lower and lower due to factories seeking for price reductions. I can't tell because i don't have experience, but i guess that a broker can talk with knowledge (isn't the same happening with almost everything around us?); and here is where i think that maybe a custom can offer more for less.
Maybe, just reflecting if it worth or not considering a custom boat IF i like it.....

You might consider one. It seems there are two types, the guy knowing what he is doing and building to high standards and the guy without a clue. Keep in mind you can probably pay less but the same goes for selling someplace down the road. Also finding someone that is looking without feeling every one off is inferior. FWIIW, someone that has built one.

[riki]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I bet on a 1 off it REALLY depends on the quality of the craftsmen doing the work. Where on a production boat it is more the design of the assembly and construction process. It's kind of like the skill of the craftsman with a circular saw compared to how well programmed the CNC machine was.

Originally Posted by Suijin

One of the benefits of production boats is the continued refinement to the design that happens with decent manufacturers. There is always some aspect to a boat’s design that turns out, after it’s built, to be unexpectedly problematic or at least subject to improvement. Usually there are quite a few.

Valiants are an excellent example. Produced over 30 years out of the same hull mold, one from the 70’s is a very different boat from one from the 00’s, and not because of age. Bob Perry tweaked the rig and keel shape several times, based on feedback from owners, and lots of small production details changed over the years to ease access, maintenance etc.

Later boats are better boats due to all those changes.

Indeed, as in every field there is evolution and this applies specially when we talk about series production. But even if in the last years maybe production is getting alwas more and more close to "perfection" i still read about many problems in new boats, sometimes serious problems, sometimes "just" delamination.....at the end i think that when a new project comes out from a factory small or big issues can always happen.

[jsmbythebay]

I think it "all depends." Especially on what your plan is.

This is anecdotal, but our family had a well known local designer (Gary Mull) come up with a design for an aluminum 45' custom cruising cutter that was built by some not-very-known professional aluminum builders. It was a very well built and sturdy boat and was still in amazing shape (due to the aluminum construction) after 12 years of cruising Mexico and the Caribbean.

Selling it was not an easy task due to its "custom" nature though, and anyone buying a non-production craft should be prepared for that eventuality. IT took a long time and some price reductions. The eventual buyer bragged to his friends that he "got a loaded $500k boat for $150k" which might be an overstatement, but you get the picture.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

-One off boats are VERY expensive.
-You will never know what you got until it's done and paid for. There are boats out there that have design flaws!
-Building or remodeling a home has wrecked many a marriage due to the stress involved, bad contractors, deadlines not met, etc. Homes are a drop in the bucket compared with those issues in building a boat.
-The resale value of custom boats is generally low compared with known boats. You're going to pay much more and get much less back.

Pleasenote that i am talking about used boats.

[riki]

Originally Posted by Cadence

You might consider one. It seems there are two types, the guy knowing what he is doing and building to high standards and the guy without a clue. Keep in mind you can probably pay less but the same goes for selling someplace down the road. Also finding someone that is looking without feeling every one off is inferior. FWIIW, someone that has built one.

Look, i never took into consideration a one off, but i totally changed my idea, also because of limited budget. Of course a survery is as and more important than when buying a production boat.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by riki

Look, i never took into consideration a one off, but i totally changed my idea, also because of limited budget. Of course a survery is as and more important than when buying a production boat.

Absolutely! You might also request receipts for materials but that does not guarantee workmanship.

[riki]

Originally Posted by jsmbythebay

I think it "all depends." Especially on what your plan is.

This is anecdotal, but our family had a well known local designer (Gary Mull) come up with a design for an aluminum 45' custom cruising cutter that was built by some not-very-known professional aluminum builders. It was a very well built and sturdy boat and was still in amazing shape (due to the aluminum construction) after 12 years of cruising Mexico and the Caribbean.

Selling it was not an easy task due to its "custom" nature though, and anyone buying a non-production craft should be prepared for that eventuality. IT took a long time and some price reductions. The eventual buyer bragged to his friends that he "got a loaded $500k boat for $150k" which might be an overstatement, but you get the picture.

I think that the sale is even more difficult when seller is the first owner, the one that had the biggest expense and the one with the bigger sentimental factor added in sale price.

[akprb]

[QUOTE=jsmbythebay;2717769
Selling it was not an easy task due to its "custom" nature though, and anyone buying a non-production craft should be prepared for that eventuality. IT took a long time and some price reductions. The eventual buyer bragged to his friends that he "got a loaded $500k boat for $150k" which might be an overstatement, but you get the picture.[/QUOTE]

This is VERY TRUE.

Be the second owner of the guy who built his dream boat.

Generally (if you are careful) you are buying from someone who has cruises his whole life and wanted to build the “just right” boat. He puts everything into it (money and time).

Hopefully he was loaded :-)

He builds, he does the dream trip, then sells.

Be #2. They are harder to sell and he will take a big hit BUT he lived his dream and that’s cool.

Win/win

This was our experience anyway. I met the actual builder years later in NZ and heard many great stories of the original owner who went on to build a cat that could carry two Harley Davidsons, one in each hull :-)

(At least that was the story)