MULTIHULL MONOHULL SURVEY

[Hud3]

It's great to be modern, but I think the old millenium was pretty nice, too.

Yacht "America".

[Toys_with_time]

[quote=Factor;168915]

I do not have any record of the incident he refers to. That isnt questioning his integrity, its a fact - I do not have any record, the fault may be with me, my records may be inaccurate, so I am keen to get as much data as I can to ensure I understand the dimensions of the issue.

APC Max capsized north of Waddy Point 22/3/08 1:05 Brisbane to Gladstone race news 2008
APC Max capsized around 11.30 just north of Waddy Point, almost exactly where Emu did last year. All crew are safe and communicated via handheld radio with Wilparina, Cut Snake and Earthling who were in the vicinity. They used the loom of lights and a trawler sighting nearby to locate the stricken vessel. All crew are now on board Wilparina and heading for Gladstone.


This is a race so assume they were pushing it. I also note how many monos turn turtle in races such as Sydney Hobart when they lose their keels. Ultimately though doesn't it come down to a) seamanship b) luck / favours from the Gods regardless of what you sail?


Personally I'm just happy to be out on the water in anything seaworthy enjoying the experiences that sailing any form of craft from a dingy to a mega maxi (with 1, 2 or 3 hulls) can give you. If I do meet bad weather and have not prepared my boat for it as best I can then I must accept that I may be very much to blame for anything that subsequently occurs because of my lack of preparation. If I am racing I accept that I am pushing the envelope and acknowledge the risks.



TwT

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Toys_with_time

APC Max capsized north of Waddy Point 22/3/08 1:05 Brisbane to Gladstone race news 2008
APC Max capsized around 11.30 just north of Waddy Point, almost exactly where Emu did last year. All crew are safe and communicated via handheld radio with Wilparina, Cut Snake and Earthling who were in the vicinity. They used the loom of lights and a trawler sighting nearby to locate the stricken vessel. All crew are now on board Wilparina and heading for Gladstone.

Yep, familiar with that one - it was a 9 metre race cat that some describe as an overgrown hobie. Good boat well sailed over many years. We were in fact about two hours behind APC max and listened closely on the radio to see if we needed to offer assistance. I am pretty sure this would not be the capsize that Catty was referring to as this one was many hundreds of miles south of the whitsundays and was on a boat much smaller that the 40 foot mentioned in catty's comments.

I note that there was no injury or loss of life , that there was no rescue required by the authorities (the crew of Wilparina a farrier F31) did the rescue) and that APC max was recovered and taken back terra firma.

[Toys_with_time]

Originally Posted by Hud3

It's great to be modern, but I think the old millenium was pretty nice, too.

Yacht "America".

Love those raked masts or was there some artistic licence in there too? Problem with the romance vs reality is that the old boats were mostly wetter and leakier than our plastic tubs although I seem to remember that when Lipton (the tea millionaire) raced his yacht he had all mod cons including from memory a piano. Now that's style! Not sure if they used it to assist as ballast although true gentlemen never go to windward

TwT

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Yacht "America".

Name reminds me of the 60 odd foot trimaran "Great American" that capsized and then was flipped right way up again .

[GordMay]

Four hundred miles short of Cape Horn, driving under bare poles for three days in seas that built to 65 feet, the trimaran “Great American” was capsized by monstrous seas.
The massive trimaran was then thrown back upright.

Goto: Press Room--Sail Magazine

[MidLandOne]

Thanks for that link GordMay, it is one that hadn't ever come up for me.

The account is deadly accurate (including the very good luck of the strobe being seen from the officers' wardroom - the ship was already searching at that time and it had not been seen from the bridge) and they were extremely lucky to have been found under the conditions - I have the fortune to have had first hand accounts from one of the rescuers who is a very experienced yachtsman himself.

But does go to show that multihulls don't necessarily stay upside down after capsizing, even if it takes extreme conditions to do so .

[catty]

[quote=Factor;168724]So we use Wharrams (polynesian cats) formula to analyse Gideons boat - hmmmm doesnt really work for me.


Factor , I'm not sure that physics is influenced by boat aesthetics. Try using Kelsals version which is pretty much the same. I used Wharrams version in the post as it had a simple to understand notes included.

[Factor]

Still waiting for the info on the inversion at the whitsundays?

[cptnandy]

-- “The only person I've ever heard of dumping a 47' cat was an inexperienced captain who had no business taking what I seem to recall was a delivery job. This was many years ago. He didn't reef when his crew recommended and then eventually demanded. The boat broke, His crew mutinied. The captain was fired for incompetence.

Last I heard he transistioned into the very challenging newspaper delivery business.

I'm not saying this is the guy .....” ---


Actually I am not that Guy. In fact I do have a lot of experience (80K+ sea miles) including 24 ocean crossings. I did not loose my job and in fact have never been fired from any job for any reason. Some details of my capsize I’ve described another thread so you can check them out there.

-- “Hell, everyone "knows" that cats tip over. As a matter of fact I have to step ever so carefully when sailing mine. After all, they're only big Hobie cats.. right? (tongue firmly in cheek)” ---

Just like all monos sink… don’t be an idiot.

All boats weather they have sails, engines, oars one or more hulls have their down sides this thread was asking for what and why I have my likes and dislikes you all have yours… big deal.

I was told in a PM that the multi hull folks get kinda uppity here, chill out -- we all have our opinions.

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by cptnandy

-- “The only person I've ever heard of dumping a 47' cat was an inexperienced captain who had no business taking what I seem to recall was a delivery job. This was many years ago. He didn't reef when his crew recommended and then eventually demanded. The boat broke, His crew mutinied. The captain was fired for incompetence.

Last I heard he transistioned into the very challenging newspaper delivery business.

I'm not saying this is the guy .....” ---


Actually I am not that Guy. In fact I do have a lot of experience (80K+ sea miles) including 24 ocean crossings. I did not loose my job and in fact have never been fired from any job for any reason. Some details of my capsize I’ve described another thread so you can check them out there.

-- “Hell, everyone "knows" that cats tip over. As a matter of fact I have to step ever so carefully when sailing mine. After all, they're only big Hobie cats.. right? (tongue firmly in cheek)” ---

Just like all monos sink… don’t be an idiot.

All boats weather they have sails, engines, oars one or more hulls have their down sides this thread was asking for what and why I have my likes and dislikes you all have yours… big deal.

I was told in a PM that the multi hull folks get kinda uppity here, chill out -- we all have our opinions.

But you said that you captained a 47ft cat and it flipped, are you now saying it did not flip?
If you did flip it I would be very interested to hear how you flipped a 47 ft catamaran, ie the weather conditions, wind, sea state, the make and model of cat, the crew experience and so on as I and I am sure many other would be cat owners or even existing cat owners can learn not to make the same mistakes, and in what publications was it reported in?
Please let all us interested multihullers know the full story, as I am now confused as you seem to be changing your mind and story.

[Hud3]

Ireaney,

You must have missed it. CaptAndy has been very forthcoming in posting a description of his experience in another thread, beginning at

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/righting-multi-gone-turtle-429-2.html#post169770

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Ireaney,

You must have missed it. CaptAndy has been very forthcoming in posting a description of his experience in another thread, beginning at

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post169770

Thanks Hud, my apologies I did miss it, I was waiting for a reply on this thread.

[cptnandy]

Irteany -- I did say that and I was driving a 47' cat when it flipped. I was the Captain so, my fault. I doubt that there was anything I could have done to prevent the capsize and needless to say I spent many weeks thinking about it as well as surviving a CG inquisition over the whole thing.

I have never changed my mind or story or the facts surrounding the whole tragic event. I have counted myself extremely lucky and thanked my guardian angels many times that I didn’t have any major injuries let alone any deaths as a result.

I might have a copy of the CG report that I made just after it happened with a total account of the incident. Will have to look for it in my files at home (onboard).

However I am not sure that I would be willing to post it here as there is bound to be a few people without the qualifications to do so judging and second-guessing everything. I have no desire to have to defend myself against any of that.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Agreed, this is apples and oranges, re: crusing vs. performance cats.

What IS interesting, however, is that a match race could now realistically be lost due to a capsize for the first time in AC racing history. In fact, with both Oracle and Alinghi having gone over in trials, it seems, at least at this point, entirely probable.

If you think there are misconceptions about catamarans now, just wait until such an incident is beamed around the world during the next AC finals.

It's highly possible that there will be capsizes. These are racing boats, with huge rigs, being pushed to the limit.

The thing I don't get is why do so many people seem to think that means the same thing will inevitably happen to cruising boats?

This also happened in an Amaricas cup race:

YouTube - America's Cup - boat sinks and breaks

Does anyone take this to mean that any time a monohull is sailed in a bit of chop it will break in half and sink?

Anyway, I've been away for a month and hadn't seen this thread. Some really funny stuff in here, especially the bits about evaluating boats on a dollars per ton basis....