is longer really more expensive?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Heath68

... also they don't do a 3 cabin version and 3 is plenty for us.

FWIW, FP has announced availability of a "Super Maestro" 3 cabin owners layout. I can't speak to actual operating costs as we don't take delivery until September - But I can share our decisioning.

We spent the last 2 years in research including attending every Annapolis and Miami show, chartering and taking ASA classes. We reviewed all available 44'-52' cats, specs...

In the end (and I admit this will sound a bit non-scientific); after spending considerable time aboard all the prospects...We unanimously agreed that for our wants and needs the Saba felt most like "home".

[LeeV]

Congratulations; great boat! As always, the best choice is the one that makes you both/all happy!

Enjoy!

[Heath68]

Dale that's spot on thank you.

Suijin, thank you for the suggestion. I knew it was more and the question posed was to establish what "more" roughly equated to. The answers I've received have given me this so I'm now able to narrow my final decision down regardless of this unknown cost. We do aim to ideally charter a favoured cat when we reach that stage but the models we like are not the typical charter market offerings. If I'm honest I wouldn't let doing that delay our purchase too long as each day planning the perfect choice is a lost day actually living the life we want... And none of us seem to have infinite time on our hands.

Calmseasquest thanks for that I didn't know and congratulations on finding your "home".

[fabgo]

Originally Posted by DaleM

Here are some real numbers. Friends of mine would normally respond to this but they are in the Bahamas and out of internet range right now.

They own a 44 sailing cat they bought that was nearly new. He does all the work himself that he can on the boat. His maintenance cost has been $2,00 per month, that is $24,000 US per year since they started cruising. He and I have had this discussion several times on boat maintenance costs and breakage rates. You could say they use their boat too heavily but you say you are going to sail across oceans and they sail ICW and Bahamas. They are full time also. I would take an educated guess that your maintenance cost could be as high as $3,000 per month on a 50 foot cat. I think they could cut those costs in half on the 44 if they babied the boat more.

If the 50' cat maintenance cost was between $1,500 to $3,000 US per month, every month, over your cruising years, could you live with that? If so go with the 50' cat, but if that cuts too much into your monthly income then you have your answer.


Dale

Hi Dale

Do you happen to have a breakdown of those costs? That is 240,000 USD over 10 years. That is a lot of money.

I just looked at a 10 year old 50' catamaran. It had original engines and sail drives, original generator, original stove, oven and refrigeration. Original mast and boom, bowsprit, windlass and winches. Original ports and hatches and salon windows. Original cockpit and interior cushions. And more.

Some of the rigging was changed, some of the sails as well.

This boat had sailed all over the world btw.

If the owner supposedly spent 300,000 to maintain this boat, where did it all go?

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Explaining your preference for a larger boat based on the fact that you live in an 8,000 sq ft home points to not understanding what living long term on a boat is really like, which bears little resemblance to living in a house.

We have (in german terms) a big comfortable house. Yet we easily adpated ourselfs to living for months on a 36ft FP Mahe with two kids. We could do that for years, no problem.



We also owned a Lagoon 410 years ago. The difference in cost to the FP Mahe was certainly noticeable.
New seals for hatches? Thats 12 Lewmar hatch seals around 80 Euro each for the 410, total cost around 950 Euro. Or 5 meter neoprene seal and some contact cement for the Mahe, total cost 15 Euro.
New seacocks: There were 10 seacocks under the waterline on the 410, but only 1 on the Mahe (plus a few plastic throughhulls above the waterline).
New sails? 30% more for the 410.
Cleaning takes 50% longer.


A bigger boat always has more complexity, more wiring, more plumbing, more everything.

Personally I'd choose the smallest cat that can do the job and that we feel comfortable in.

[DaleM]

Some of the items that failed for the 44 cat were: both saildrive transmissions twice, battery bank, cracked hull at one location twice , cracked hull near chainplate once, replaced fridge, replaced water maker, replaced hard boom vang, replaced sails, replaced self tacking jib boom and may need new genset in near future. Also replaced dinghy motor. These are just the items I remember. They are full time and use the boat a lot.

This is a big cat that can only be hauled at some yards so that costs more too. They love the boat and their life but we could not afford it. Dale

[Pitchondesign]

When I was buying my second boat, I couldn't decide whether I wanted a 50' or a 60' monohull. Looked at several boats up to 65'. The bigger boat is always the lure (lust). My broker gave me the best advise I ever had with regard to buying a boat. I will pass it on. It is, 'buy to smallest boat you can live with. I couldn't believe a broker would say that. We bought a 50' mono, and couldn't be happier. The boat is more maintenance than I would have thought, more work, and more expense, but manageable. The bigger boat would have just been too much, and no more fun. We do this for fun, right? I still get to go to the same places, do the same things, meet the same people as on a bigger boat. Buy the smallest boat you can live with, and have fun with the experience of cruising, rather than the hardware. BTW, we have had our boat for 7 years.

[alctel]

Been said before, but try chartering maybe before deciding. You may find you can go way smaller.

A 44ft cat is massive and almost probably more room in it than any apartment I've lived in - no point spending more for a boat you don't need!

[Mr B]

This one was in Fiji, two young blokes and a girl, and two little kids,
Took them 3 days to do a full hull clean and repaint between the tides,
They were on their way from Argentina to France,

Total cost, about 2 and 1/2 gallons of paint and a lot of sweat, 30 Degrees Celcius,
Required about every four years or so,
This would cost about 4 grand in a Marina with haul out costs as well, If you cant do it yourself,

It was Eco friendly paint,
I have also heard that freshwater kills the seawater barnacles that attach to the hulls,
As in sailing up rivers and creeks where Mono's cant go, Too much draught,

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by alctel

Been said before, but try chartering maybe before deciding. You may find you can go way smaller.

A 44ft cat is massive and almost probably more room in it than any apartment I've lived in - no point spending more for a boat you don't need!

We're planning on chartering a 44 this year to see...

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Brand new does not mean hassle/fault free for 5 years as many have discovered.
The environment is totally different from anything land life has to offer.

Good point. I've known a few people who bought new, because "they didn't want to deal with someone else's problems."

Turns out they spent a whole lot of time with their "own problems". Yeah, the warranty covered most of the cost but they still ate up the first year of cruising working out bugs.

Some thoughts:
- If you were building new and added a few feet to both ends but left everything else exactly the same, what you are talking about would be largely true. The cost differences would be pretty minimal. Reality is that's not how it works. For a similar design approach, everything changes.
- In some areas, you will have limited options for slips and haul outs. Typically the ones that are available will be the more expensive (per foot) facilities. Supply & Demand suggests smaller supply will result in higher prices.

Let's take one item: You are replacing a stay. The 50' boat might have a 12% longer stay...so the cost should be 12% more....except, the 50' boat uses a thicker stay...oh and that's a special order because not many boats use it, so there is an extra charge and a delay, so you also pay a few more days in the yard (because of course they didn't realize until the mast was pulled). End result, you pay 50% more for that stay.

Similar examples can be made with other parts. Some parts will be the same size/cost. Others might be 5 times the cost because they are not production parts. On average expect it to go up much faster than the length increases.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by alctel

A 44ft cat is massive and almost probably more room in it than any apartment I've lived in - no point spending more for a boat you don't need!

One mans massive is another mans adequate at best.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Mr B

This one was in Fiji, two young blokes and a girl, and two little kids,
Took them 3 days to do a full hull clean and repaint between the tides,
They were on their way from Argentina to France,

Total cost, about 2 and 1/2 gallons of paint and a lot of sweat, 30 Degrees Celcius,
Required about every four years or so,
This would cost about 4 grand in a Marina with haul out costs as well, If you cant do it yourself,

It was Eco friendly paint,
I have also heard that freshwater kills the seawater barnacles that attach to the hulls,
As in sailing up rivers and creeks where Mono's cant go, Too much draught,

Eco friendly paint?
So OK to spill over the beach?
How does it keep the googlies at bay?

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Eco friendly paint?
So OK to spill over the beach?
How does it keep the googlies at bay?

200 feet from and in full sight of the Marina office and 40 odd yachts on swing moorings fifty feet away,
I think they might have said something about it,

The dock for the Fijian day workers is just behind this cat also, And go right past it in boats every day,

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Eco friendly paint?
So OK to spill over the beach?
How does it keep the googlies at bay?

Hey, man. Paint is expensive. No one would spill it on purpose over the beach.
I wonder if the paint is cured in such a short time between the tides - you have to clean the hull from the last tide, dry it and apply the paint, the paint needs to cure before the water comes back - it's not too many time to do the job...

I will paint my bottom with copper coat, so beaching and cleaning would be feasible without a re-paint for a decade they promise. We'll see.