Corsair vs Dragonfly

[modifier]

How would those with direct experience with both rate the designs and build quality of Corsair and Dragonfly tris. I'm mostly interested in the Corsair 31UC and the Dragonfly 28 or the new 32 as a first boat. Also some have said that since Corsair has moved production to Vietnam the quality has gone down. I wonder if this is reality or just assumption? Use mostly coastal cruising off the coast of Fla and eventually some trips farther south. Bang for the buck rating too.

[Also for some reason after my first post, when the post goes up it takes out paragraphs. Didn't happen the first time but the next ones turned out that way. Any ideas how to fix that? Never run across that on other forums.]

[Mick C]

Originally Posted by modifier

How would those with direct experience with both rate the designs and build quality of Corsair and Dragonfly tris. I'm mostly interested in the Corsair 31UC and the Dragonfly 28 or the new 32 as a first boat. Also some have said that since Corsair has moved production to Vietnam the quality has gone down. I wonder if this is reality or just assumption? Use mostly coastal cruising off the coast of Fla and eventually some trips farther south. Bang for the buck rating too.

[Also for some reason after my first post, when the post goes up it takes out paragraphs. Didn't happen the first time but the next ones turned out that way. Any ideas how to fix that? Never run across that on other forums.]

Purely to answer your quality question...From what I observed of a new Corsair and some Vietnam Seawinds...i do not believe that quality is an issue. I think it is an assumptio that Vietnamese production is of a lesser quality than Australian. I worked for a company that produced product in Vietnam, Thailand, Maylasia, China and Indonesia and of course Australia and US. The same systems and processes and QA exists in all facilities and the outputs were according to spec. Yes Vietnam and to a lesser extent some of the other Asian countries have less infrastructure than Australia and the US but that generally speaking does not effect production units and hence quality. Raw materials are generally centrally speced and something centrally sourced so material spec quality should be similar. So like I said, my personal view is that equating off shore production with lesser quality id often just and assumption. My recommendation is to go view, touch, feel both crafts and assess quality that way.

Regarding the Corsair V Dragonfly...two beautiful boats which you already know. No real experience with either apart from watching a corsair fly past us when racing. Someone else chime in here with your experiences.

Regards
Mick

[cwyckham]

I've raced a couple times on an F-24. Wow. Just Wow.

Have you looked at Trimaran and Catamaran Designs By Farrier Marine, Inc.? Farrier was the designer of the Corsair F boats and had a falling out. He's now gone his own way. I believe he has a facility in NZ and there's a place in the Philippines making his designs, too.

Possibly worth looking into.

If I was looking for a coastal boat, I'd definitely looking at exactly the boats you are looking at. They are amazing to sail!

[deckofficer]

Yep, Corsairs do like to fly.


Lake Tahoe

[modifier]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Have you looked at Trimaran and Catamaran Designs By Farrier Marine, Inc.? Farrier was the designer of the Corsair F boats and had a falling out. He's now gone his own way. I believe he has a facility in NZ and there's a place in the Philippines making his designs, too.

Possibly worth looking into.

If I was looking for a coastal boat, I'd definitely looking at exactly the boats you are looking at. They are amazing to sail!

Thanks. Good lead. I knew that he designed Corsair and had left but didn't know he was still at it so good to know. I'll investigate.

Ultimately I want something that is easy to sail and learn on but still fast and fun and with enough comfort features so it's relatively pleasant to live on for short periods. I know people sail these boats around the world but If I ever decide to do something like that it will be years away and likely on a big cat. This is a stepping stone. But one that I may live with for a while.

[SailFastTri]

You really have to see them in person. The quality differences in fit-finish are major. Not sure about current pricing. Have owned three Dragonflies (920, 1000, 1200).

[cwyckham]

People sail them around the world? Do you have a link to somebody who's done that? These would be my first choice for a coastal boat, but not for a world sailor. I'd love to see how somebody did it, though!

[SailFastTri]

Also look at quality of rjgging components and stainless fittings. Dragonflies come really nicely rigged, with CF masts standard.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

People sail them around the world? Do you have a link to somebody who's done that? These would be my first choice for a coastal boat, but not for a world sailor. I'd love to see how somebody did it, though!

I know of at least 1 DF-1200 that came over to the US from Europe on its own bottom, but that's a 12 meter boat.

[Flying Circus]

@SailFastTri

I *heard* it often that the Dragonfly has a better built. I never was on a DragonFly so can't confirm personally. Corsair's are considerably less expensive, though, and their built quality is pretty good as well.

Re: going around the world. You may want to check out the website of the German representative from Corsair, there is a report of him going across the Atlantic on an F-27 back in 1991.

Two guys just went around Cape Horn on a Nacra F20. Everything seems possible these days...

[sabray]

A good story of a trip to Bermuda on a f-27. Bermuda Sail.
1987: The first ocean crossing by an F-27. Mark Robson's KILLER FROG sails in the Trans Pac Race from Long Beach to Hawaii. Averages just on 8 knots for a quick 12 day passage, including one 250 mile day. It should be noted that while it is nice to know that the F-27 is capable of such long ocean crossings in experienced hands, it still remains a small trailerable yacht and is not recommended or intended for this purpose.
1988: The second ocean crossing, this time across the Atlantic. Adrian Went's F-27 OLIJFE makes an impressive passage of 23 days from Cape Cod to Bishop Rock, England and then on up through the English Channel to Holland.
1989: The F-27 CORSAIR wins the multihull division of the Newport - Ensenada Race, the first time a production trimaran has done this.


1990: Two more F-27s cross the Pacific to Hawaii, one singlehanded, one doublehanded. 1991: Dr. Werner Stolz and Roswitha Schadt's F-27 becomes the second F-27 to cross the Atlantic. from Corsair F-27 trimaran: Model history

The interior are not wow but the hulls are pretty stiff. Read a lot because the these get some stress and owners have figured out where to check and beef them up.

[tamicatana]

I wouldn't buy new, simply because the used market is pretty decent right now. I have a modified F-27 that is 23 years old, is quite competitive with her mods and still cruises pretty damn well for a race boat. (she is for sale, my arthritis is getting to me.)

I can't speak to the Dragonfly other than what I see on the 'Net but I do know that the F-boats, including the Corsairs (and they have diverged, Mr Farrier will be sure to set you straight on that) are very easy to trailer if that's a big factor for you.

I'll put some pics up too. F-boating on F-27

[modifier]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Yep, Corsairs do like to fly.>

Hi Bob. Does your boat have a aft cabin? How does that work out if so? Looks kind of hard to get in and out of. Thanks

[modifier]

Originally Posted by tamif27

I wouldn't buy new, simply because the used market is pretty decent right now. >

That's what I've been thinking.

[SailFastTri]

Someone posted above that the Dragonflies are more expensive. Total cost of ownership (TCO) = Purchase $ - operating expense (maint/upgrades + storage/dockage + insurance and buying/selling fees + taxes) - selling $.

For the last two Dragonfly boats I've owned my TCO has been a profit, if I removed the operating expense from the equation (in other words, just looking at buy minus sell). Unfortunately much of that appreciation has resulted from the devaluation of the dollar relative to the Euro, causing used boat prices to hold high and even appreciate, as a result of new boat prices sky-rocketing.

The jury is out on my current boat, a DF-1200, but based on recent sales I know it's holding its value well.