buying new vs used

[craig boorman]

I wonder if folks really realize the cost of a new boat and all the gear that one has to purchase to make it cruise ready. It has been said that you need to add $100,000 to a new STANDARD SPEC boat. I say add $25,000 more to that. I added it up the other day while sitting on my boat at the Miami show waiting for customers. I do not understand why my used boat did not sell, it's 2 1/2 years old and it and all the gear is in perfect condition, priced at over $200.000 less than a new one, it is sitting right here in America and is turn key and go. I have gone through the building process, the delivery, the registering, the decking out, oversaw the fitting of new equiptment, worked out kinks. and enjoyed cruising on her. Most folks said they really liked the boat. I did recieve 2 offers of very low amounts but I really thought someone would show up, see the boat and buy her. Must be the economy because it can't be my beautiful boat.

[blondezilla]

Most definitely the economy. They are practically giving them away on yachtworld and they move quick. People are willing to do a LOT of work to get a better price. Whereas before people were willing to pay more to have everything done. Of course these people don't realize what they are getting themselves into... but if it doesn't work out its just another unfinished boat on the market going extremely discounted because it was too much for their marriage to take LOL
We are looking for a 40-60 footer to completely undertake. Since bit&* slapped by the economy we have decided to do this with cats rather than houses.
We are looking to spend 50-100K and we are finding them all day long. Generally unadvertised, but the more we research the more we find out that older cats got away with murder in the way of design.
But...yeah...we are in the market for a rough shape cat and we imagine many others are as well.

[schoonerdog]

I think what's happening now is what's happened in other countries, such as Italy. 3 year old Ferrari's in Italy would sell for 1/3 their new value, simply because those who could afford them, wanted them only new. It's not quite that drastic now, but it's the same concept. With the depretion of the US dollar those who can buy at all are buying new. For certain models which were used commonly in charter businesses I know for a fact that US brokers are luring customers in by saying that if they will contract the commisioning of a new charter catamaran the customer will be able to buy it after 3 years at half of the new price. So that's your competition.

Originally Posted by craig boorman

I wonder if folks really realize the cost of a new boat and all the gear that one has to purchase to make it cruise ready. It has been said that you need to add $100,000 to a new STANDARD SPEC boat. I say add $25,000 more to that. I added it up the other day while sitting on my boat at the Miami show waiting for customers. I do not understand why my used boat did not sell, it's 2 1/2 years old and it and all the gear is in perfect condition, priced at over $200.000 less than a new one, it is sitting right here in America and is turn key and go. I have gone through the building process, the delivery, the registering, the decking out, oversaw the fitting of new equiptment, worked out kinks. and enjoyed cruising on her. Most folks said they really liked the boat. I did recieve 2 offers of very low amounts but I really thought someone would show up, see the boat and buy her. Must be the economy because it can't be my beautiful boat.

[Troutbridge]

Originally Posted by craig boorman

I wonder if folks really realize the cost of a new boat and all the gear that one has to purchase to make it cruise ready. It has been said that you need to add $100,000 to a new STANDARD SPEC boat. I say add $25,000 more to that. I added it up the other day while sitting on my boat at the Miami show waiting for customers. I do not understand why my used boat did not sell, it's 2 1/2 years old and it and all the gear is in perfect condition, priced at over $200.000 less than a new one, it is sitting right here in America and is turn key and go. I have gone through the building process, the delivery, the registering, the decking out, oversaw the fitting of new equiptment, worked out kinks. and enjoyed cruising on her. Most folks said they really liked the boat. I did recieve 2 offers of very low amounts but I really thought someone would show up, see the boat and buy her. Must be the economy because it can't be my beautiful boat.

I'm surprised Craig. I recently purchased a new boat and probably spent an additional 20% of the purchase price on 'goodies' for blue water cruising. (The boat was 'loaded' with the manufacturers extras as well). I looked long & hard (in the UK and 'nearby' countries) and the only boats that has all the equipment that I wanted were 10+ years old. Had I had found a 'newish' boat with all the kit I would have brought it. Mind you, there is the (expensive) delight of creating your own boat. There comes a point where you look at an older boat and think 'how much stuff will I have to replace?' Also, have newer boats been 'improved'. Depending on what the boat has been doing, I would have thought that 2.5 years would have been about the oldest boat I would have looked at, maybe that's your answer. Not old enough to be 'really cheap', but not young enough to be 'virtually unused'.

[Stella Polaris]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

For certain models which were used commonly in charter businesses I know for a fact that US brokers are luring customers in by saying that if they will contract the commissioning of a new charter catamaran the customer will be able to buy it after 3 years at half of the new price. So that's your competition.

That's not bad. For which catamarans? I'd hate to wait three years for my boat though.

[EdKangeter]

Hi, I am new in the forum and am curious as to why you think so much of the Admiral cats?

[Eleven]

Half want a 25 per cent discount on a three year old boat.
I'm amazed it's so high. I'm looking at twenty yr old boats and they are selling today at the price they sold at as new and I'll be in for sails, dinghy, engine, liferaft, avionics all due for upgrade in the next three years.
A three year old boat should give three years of low maintenance sailing with all the kinks ironed out. Perhaps the 'offers' reflect the price they'd like to pay. The lease purchase schemes seem a much better deal. Lease to a charter company, get your boat back in three years for 20 per cent od the new price. Now that's the way to retire in three years time. But I want it now. See 'buying a charter boat through moorings' thread by irwinsailor

[Randall]

Originally Posted by craig boorman

I wonder if folks really realize the cost of a new boat and all the gear that one has to purchase to make it cruise ready. It has been said that you need to add $100,000 to a new STANDARD SPEC boat. I say add $25,000 more to that. I added it up the other day while sitting on my boat at the Miami show waiting for customers. I do not understand why my used boat did not sell, it's 2 1/2 years old and it and all the gear is in perfect condition, priced at over $200.000 less than a new one, it is sitting right here in America and is turn key and go. I have gone through the building process, the delivery, the registering, the decking out, oversaw the fitting of new equiptment, worked out kinks. and enjoyed cruising on her. Most folks said they really liked the boat. I did recieve 2 offers of very low amounts but I really thought someone would show up, see the boat and buy her. Must be the economy because it can't be my beautiful boat.

Hello Craig,
I looked at your boat on yacht traders beautiful boat but even under priced at the price you are at, there is a very select customer you are looking for. It is said that houses under 200 are not effected by market swings its the houses that are higher that are. I would assume the same goes for boats there is always more buyers in the lower priced markets and when the market is good they go for more than they really can afford and when the market is not so good they stay in there price range.

[Eleven]

Sorry fella. Looks like you've got to go cruising for another four years yet. Life can't be all bad.
Wish it was in reach for me. Wanna buy a house?

[GordMay]

According to the Sailing Company's annual North American Sailing Industry Study, prepared by Rick Walter Market Research Associates, sailboat production declined by 5 per cent in 2007 to 14,158 units, compared to 14,945 units in 2006. Overall, this is the seventh straight year of decline for North American builders. The industry hit a high note in 2000 with 22,164 boats.

Sailboats up to 19 ft declined by 3 per cent to 11,265 units compared to 2006 Mid-range boats from 20 to 40 feet were off by 15 per cent to 2,284 units.
Larger boats, in the 41- 45 ft. range, were off by 7 per cent in 2007 to 609 units.
In the 46-ft. and over category, however, orders were up by 104 units to 249 boats in 2007.
Almost one out of four bigger boats over 36 feet, were 46 feet and over.

Multihulls, particularly in the 19-ft. and under category, declined significantly from 2,674 units in 2006 to 1978 last year. Overall, US multihull production was down by 25 per cent.

Both importers, and US manufacturers, are predicting relatively flat sales in North America in 2008. "Threats of a recession and prediction that the real estate crises will carry well into 2009 are reflective of a very cautionary tone in builder predictions for 2008.
In past surveys, sailboat manufacturers have been overly optimistic about prospects for the year ahead.

[schoonerdog]

I'd heard it from the brokers selling FP and Lagoon.

Originally Posted by SettingSail2009

That's not bad. For which catamarans? I'd hate to wait three years for my boat though.

[schoonerdog]

Lavranos design, the Admiral 38 and 40 has a lot of space for a cat it's size. Build quality looks decent and they have a good reputation. It's definitely a lot of boat for the money.

Originally Posted by EdKangeter

Hi, I am new in the forum and am curious as to why you think so much of the Admiral cats?

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by EdKangeter

Hi, I am new in the forum and am curious as to why you think so much of the Admiral cats?

From the last time I looked at the Admiral Cats my opinion is you would probably find the fit, finish and overall quality to be less than the Lagoon.

Regards,
Mike

[sail2wind]

I am chartering a 38' Admiral in July. There is an Admiral thread on this board. They have a pretty reputation, obviously the resale is not as high as Lagoon. I will report back after the charter. Evan

[schoonerdog]

That's fair, the fit and finish is probably less than lagoon, but it's not bad. When I was looking at buying some Admirals were selling for 200k when a comparably sized and equally aged Lagoon was selling for 300k. The strength of the build and sea kindliness is probably at least equal, and the galley size and storage is greater. The admiral also has a larger beam, which greatly increases the settee area.

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

From the last time I looked at the Admiral Cats my opinion is you would probably find the fit, finish and overall quality to be less than the Lagoon.

Regards,
Mike