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Old 09-02-2010, 14:46   #16
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There is a lot of wisdom here. LOTS!! 44 cruisingcat and whyme, you both have great things to share. Thanks so much. Anyone contemplating building would do good to print this thread, and read it everyday for a while....:-)
And both of your projects are very impressive. Just awesome, and when you place it against the amount of unfinished projects, it is even more impressive.

I am like Randy. I have owned two Searunner Trimarans. Both "homebuilt" both really well built. Neither one was sailed much by the builder. I have always wanted to build, but end up finding great boats at a great price.
My first boat I bought from a guy, poor guy. Excellent craftsman, had never sailed. After 6 years construction time, they went out and ripped the mast off on a bridge that does not open during rush hour. Freaked the wife and kids out. He got a new mast and put it up for sale.
Another story....perfect cold molded boat. It looked like a piano on the inside. Just amazing quality. Built on a farm took 7 years. They went out and got in a gale and pulled into Astoria and put a for sale sign on it. Sad.
From this I have a rule "there are builders, and there are sailors" It is a rare sailor that takes enough time to build a boat, and take off and never come back. It is a rare builder that is comfortable with the boat out bouncing around, after it was so controlled and such a pleasure to have in the shop....suddenly the boat is not nice and quiet!!!!!
The guys who build and sail, like Larry Pardey, are really pretty rare I think. I know a few.....but they are rare.
I still want to build a boat.......:banghead :
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Old 09-02-2010, 21:14   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post

which cost me around $180,000 for materials, and 5500 hours work, over less than 4 years.

.

I've followed your progress with interest on this forum. Hard figures seem pretty hard to come by , so good on you for posting.

I've cut and pasted one of your posts from a couple of years ago.

Quote....
I'm building a 44 foot boat. The cost to fit her out looks like running to around $70,000 Au. But I'm building the rig myself, (buying mast section, boom and spreader section, but fabricating the other bits.) which will cost me around $6500 all up, where having a spar maker build and install it would cost around $30,000.
Unquote

So out of interest where did the $100,000 budget blow out occur? Does this figure of $180 K include sails etc?

Genuinely interested.
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Old 09-02-2010, 21:31   #18
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The figure of $70k was, as stated, the cost of fitout. The hull shell, faired, painted, locked up and with furniture built cost close to $100k, including engines.

The $70k was what I estimated it would cost on top of this, to finish the boat.

So the $100k "budget blowout" is actually $10k.

That does include working sails.
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:32   #19
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@44' cruisingcat: yes, I worked that one out. So well done that you only actually went over budget by a mere $10k

Meanwhile I looked at the Oram website. They are interesting cats actually. You 44 seems to be the perfect size, although the 40' would also be adequate. The 44 probably gives a more comfy sea ride.
The $70k dollars is what most kit builders state as the fit out cost for a normal cruising fit out. I come to $100k, but then I want a watermaker and the new Mastervolt hybrid generator/charger/inverter unit. Soon adds up!
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:05   #20
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Came across this Fram's Blog website and read it all.
Do look at the archives. Seems like you're in for some long, hard but rewarding work.
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:48   #21
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Hi Sigmasailor,

Well, Fram is not the way I would want to build my cat. My god, that is some project!! Very professional though. But that would put me off forever. Hurray for kit cats!
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Old 10-02-2010, 13:42   #22
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A friend is buildning a 40 foot cat using a similar method to Fram. He started over a year before me, and still has several years to go. He currently has the hulls joined by the bridgedeck. He'll have an excellent, light boat, but it's not a fast way to build.

IIRC it took him a couple of weeks just to set up the female MDF moulds. After 8 days I was already at this stage:







His boat required something like 60 female mould frames, which all have to be accurately set up, mine had 5.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:49   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
....He started over a year before me, and still has several years to go. He currently has the hulls joined by the bridgedeck. He'll have an excellent, light boat, but it's not a fast way to build.

IIRC it took him a couple of weeks just to set up the female MDF moulds. After 8 days I was already at this stage:
My friend you are being much too modest. You built a terrific, quality boat which speaks volumes of your character and craftman skills. I don't think 1 in 1000 (probably 1 in 10,000) finish a boat kit build.

We are fortunate to have you posting here as few have your skills or dedication.
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Old 13-02-2010, 01:06   #24
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Thanks for the great thread!
I'm in a similiar situation to Catcruiser; looking at designs to build and pricing them in comparison to the second hand market. I too have been following 44'cruisingcat's progress over the last couple of years in admiration and awe! It's good to see a few more of Bob Oram's designs, particularly 44Cs on the water in southern Queensland. No doubt they'll turn up some day "in a port near you!"
Catcruiser, you're pretty close to my costing on a Fusion 40. I've "penciled in" $400,000 AUD to finish one off with diesels, small genset and cruising electrics and electronics. I've costed a temporary construction "greenhouse"' but no shed rental. We both may be way off the final cost!
I'm also interested in the Oceanic 373, but will need an opportunity to see one in the flesh (or fibreglass) so to speak. They are made in Melbourne, Australia and Ricard, the Manager seems prepared to negotiate possible modifications to the layup (eg structural foam instead of balsa in places) and the layout (eg.galley up instead of galley down). I think they are worth a look, but being a much newer model there aren't many on the water to inspect.
I'm still not 100% sure that the "in hull" space on either the Fusion 40 or the Oceanic 373 is big enough for my (and the financier's) live aboard comfort. Both seem to have adequate cockpit and saloon space but down in those hulls it looks a bit squeesy. I'd really hate to spend the dollars and all that effort and then come to the conclusion after launching that it really didn't suit. It would ruin your whole day!
It's my first post, so hi to the multihull community!
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Old 13-02-2010, 01:50   #25
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there are a couple of Fusions in charter in the Whitsundays.. good way to know for sure. Oceanic.. Thats a Shionning design I think. Can't be bad and good that you can swap to foam.
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Old 13-02-2010, 03:54   #26
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Oceanic 373 is, I'm informed. a Schionning design and as such should work well. It would be good to hear from others if there are any readers with information regarding its performance.

Will definitely be spending more time on a Fusion 40 before any cash is outlayed in that direction. That's the beauty of charter boats: try before you buy.
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Old 13-02-2010, 08:39   #27
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Hi Tuskie! Welcome! I am fairly new here too.
Problem for trying for me is, I am on the other side of the world, so no trying out Fusions in Whitsundays. And I think there is only one Fusion here in the Med, somewhere in France.
The Oceanic 373's are Schionning designs, but there has been input from Oceanic to make the boat suitable for the fast-kit building by use of mouldings, so I have been told by Lorraine Schionning.
I don't think there are many 373's around yet, but I got pictures of Richard of RMK Marine, with a 373 with both mini-beaching keels (so not LAR keels) AND daggerboards. I have asked Fusion about this, and they can also offer this option.
Now that is the optimal solution I would imagine. You can beach safely and you still have good sailing characteristics.

Don't be fooled about the Fusion being a 40 ft though. It is in fact just under 39ft (the hull). Also, with Oceanic the price of the kit includes all bonding materials, with Fusion it doesn't (some excuse about not being able to ship it in the containers.... but Oceanic can??)
Payload is however considerably higher on a Fusion (about 400kg more), bridgedeck clearance is simular.
Another interesting option I looked at, is the new Dazcat 1195 or their 1290. They can also be ordered in all sorts of stages of built. www.dazcat.co.uk
They look rather cool, if anything.
I also looked at the Woods design, Transit 38. But I just cannot get used to the looks of that catamaran. Also the cockpit seems very small.
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Old 13-02-2010, 20:38   #28
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The fusion hulls are a Lidgard 39, the extra foot is the catwalk. I helped pull one out of a 40 ft container and it used about every mill there was.

Shionnings are very good but I think the fusion is a little less money lately. I haven't seen any of the Oceanics but there are a lot of fusions out there. I would guess over 50. Neither would be a bad boat. I would have either one if I could afford it.

If one is paying a crew to build a boat for them then fusion or maybe the Oceanic, is the way to go(my opinion). Paying a crew to construct a "kit" boat from panels will cost more I bet, and with an uncertain schedule and outcome.

I've worked on a Schionning "kit" too. I think they(using same material) cost a little more than a Oram but include more. The per panel cost is the same. Schionning charge a little more for the plans too I think and I do hear they all get a commission(kickback) back from balsa supplier.

I think if a "pre fab" of "kit" the big issue is to select the materials you want and see who does the best for the boat you want.

But for the future.. make sure it's pretty! Really good looking boats always sell. The ugly duckling, only a mother would have kind of boats, may perform OK but they don't sell well.

I'm partial to the fusion.. but all I can afford is ply!

BTW Cat cruiser.. fusions come from thailand and no resins allowed in the container to OZ. Oceanic from Victoria do not have those restrictions to local destinations. Not sure if thats international norm or just thailand. I suspect if Oceanic were shipped international they would also have to leave the glue out.
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Old 14-02-2010, 04:53   #29
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@Why me: ok, fair enough about the resins. I get the impression Oceanic ship international including resins, but need to verify this.
But since you have worked on mouldings kit cats and "regular" kit cats, it must be a lot quicker to assemble a Fusion compared to a Schionning or Oram, right?
Although I really like the Schionnings, just the hull building itself will take god knows how many months. And then there is the interior still to do! So in that respect a Fusion or Oceanic does look attractive. But.... Schionnings do have a higher resell factor I think, looking at the prices of 2nd hand Schionnings. Not that Fusions are cheap, but Schionning is a magical name where designs are concerned.
Oh well, first I am hoping to have a test sail on a Spirited 380 in April, as the spanish dealer has finally finished there "green version" (hybrid).
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Old 14-02-2010, 14:23   #30
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cat cruiser, you could be right about Oceanic shipping the resins. like I said, not sure if that is an international shipping rule or just thailand.

Have no info on the Oceanic kit but suspect it would go fast. Schionning has never had a bad boat that I know of. The reputation is good.

The fusion is so fair I couldn't match it if you gave me years on a panel boat. If you have the money and you like the look it's a good way to go.

The Spirited 380 is not a 'schionning designs' boat. Craig is one of the sons who went on his own. They look good and must sail well so a fine first effort. Real busy kit though. Does look a lot like dads boats. "the apple didn't fall far from the tree"
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