Westsail 32 - Opinions Needed !

[Sailing320]

Are their any Westsail 32 owners in Florida that would be willing to take me sailing for the afternoon? I would like to know more about this boat?

[GWB]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Look at page 27 of sail magazine Feb 2012 issue. Another notch in the Westsail belt. Nice, and a perfect fit for this boat. Big kudos to the 84 year old who is trying to sail it around the Cape...

Seeing pix of cockpit, it is clearly testimony about boats being purpose built.

I bought another ocean capable overbuilt classic, but ruled out the Westsail for myself early due to cramped cockpit space, which is where I spend most of my time. If I were rounding Cape Horn, I am sure I would think differently.

And although I think my Luders also can surprise folks with light air performance, by no means would I label it or a Westsail as a "light air performer" which seems a bit overstated...

What I was getting at was I have seen a lot of posts where people state that the boat will not move in anything under 10 knots and words to that effect. If you look at the picture I posted earlier I think that it shows that the W-32 can in fact to be made to perform very well in light air. Also in the last single handed transpac the skipper of the Westsail Saraband passed several other boats on the days when the wind was very light.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by GWB

What I was getting at was I have seen a lot of posts where people state that the boat will not move in anything under 10 knots and words to that effect. If you look at the picture I posted earlier I think that it shows that the W-32 can in fact to be made to perform very well in light air. Also in the last single handed transpac the skipper of the Westsail Saraband passed several other boats on the days when the wind was very light.

You're preaching to the choir on the surprising light air performance, but making it sound like my Luders or a Westsail is a "performer" in light air is what causes folks to attack the posts. Yes, in flat water I can sail upwind at 5 knots in 6 knots of breeze easily. Add in some open water chop and slop and a light air race boat will sail circles around us.....

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by malbert73

(...) Great for serious oceangoing passages (...)

I would pick up something else 32'. Say the Contessa.

I think when living aboard is considered then a voluminous boat like the W32 wins hands down. But on a serious offshore passage one can be better off in a nimbler boat.

b.

[GWB]

Originally Posted by malbert73

You're preaching to the choir on the surprising light air performance, but making it sound like my Luders or a Westsail is a "performer" in light air is what causes folks to attack the posts. Yes, in flat water I can sail upwind at 5 knots in 6 knots of breeze easily. Add in some open water chop and slop and a light air race boat will sail circles around us.....

Point taken. Surprising good light air performance then? It should also be said that this is about cruising sailboats.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by GWB

Point taken. Surprising good light air performance then? It should also be said that this is about cruising sailboats.

You've made some very good points, and enought information loged to protest the rating of 204.. I have a meeting with YRA this next month and we'll see about dropping the rating to somewhere, where it will stand on its own in performance..
If everything you say is true, being a light air performer, a fantastic mid range and superior heavyweather boat,with the ability to compete boat for boat in race conditions and of corse, let us not forget peters coment of days traveled,
Maybe we can get some respect out of the boat and get the numbers down under 80......
I'll pull all the info you have provided with first hand experance logged and present to the staff.

[roverhi]

Ah, spoken like a true bureaucrat. If you can't handle something change the law to make it non-competive. Guess that would be good for the properly aligned builders and designers getting Federal money. Let's hear it for croney racing ratings.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Ah, spoken like a true bureaucrat. If you can't handle something change the law to make it non-competive. Guess that would be good for the properly aligned builders and designers getting Federal money. Let's hear it for croney racing ratings.

Peter,
well then you tell me.. the boat is rated at 204, but competes with newer boats of higher rating.. this has happened throu the years as newer sail material has come to the market as well as inproved gear,, running rigging and so on.. the newer boats are rated with this gear so why not the older boats that have been upgraded..
The same thing happened to me a few years ago when I opted to campaign a newer Catalina 22 MKll with a fin keel.. right off the start, YRA bumped me 9 seconds per mile for the fin keel and the wider beem, the follownig year, my stats were reviewed and I was bumped an additional 6 seconds and as the 4 year term progressed, My 270 rating was dropped to 222..
The rating system is designed to handi-cap all boats to be rated the same, or handi-caped. If the W32 is handi-caped to high if it performes as stated and still running a 204 handi-cap..
So entering a race with the known knoledge that the boat will "Out perform" its numbers is Cheating..
If you are saying it will run with my boat, or outperform my boat and mine is rated at 84, then mine it rated to low or yours is rated to high, and due to the fact that the FIRST 42 is a performance race boat, the colective numbers on placed finishes giving it the 82, are taken from hundreds upon hundreds of races.
we're not talking about skippers here but boat performance..
If the boat dosent perform to a lower handi-cap, and the rating of 204 is correct, then the finishes in the high numbers are just a fluke along with the distance you've traveled over 10 days or you are all just tell ing stories....
You make up your own mind.. which is it.........Are you cheating the numbers or just lying....

[s/v Jedi]

Randy,

I am afraid that the sheer basics of the racing handicap system are not understood. People think that handicap rating is fixed somewhere in the past and that beating it with better sails or other changes makes one a winner. This is completely against the spirit of sailing regattas.

What is fair and what not? Fair would be to give last years winner a penalty this year, just like they add weight to the cars of the winners in F1 car racing!

And what Randy means is simply that winning a race on handicap proves absolutely nothing. Those races every boat should be exactly the same and winners are either skilled crews or the lucky ones. The boat should not be a factor.

ciao!
Nick.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Randy,

And what Randy means is simply that winning a race on handicap proves absolutely nothing. Those races every boat should be exactly the same and winners are either skilled crews or the lucky ones. The boat should not be a factor.

ciao!
Nick.

Thats exactally what I'm talking about..
So if the numbers are correct, and the handi-cap is streight across the board.......
Its the not the boat we should be praising, its the skipper.....

[GWB]

Randy it sounds to me like you are worried that you might get beaten by a Westsail in a race
I think everyone reading this thread understands that the reason the handicap ratings exist is so that dissimilar boats can race against each other "in a fair manner".
The system isn't perfect but works fairly well.

So you think the Westsail should rate lower than your boat huh? hahahahaha

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by GWB

Randy it sounds to me like you are worried that you might get beaten by a Westsail in a race
I think everyone reading this thread understands that the reason the handicap ratings exist is so that dissimilar boats can race against each other "in a fair manner".
The system isn't perfect but works fairly well.

So you think the Westsail should rate lower than your boat huh? hahahahaha

I didnt say it should rate lower, and again you are twisting everything to meet your own assesment..
and I'm not worried about the westsail 32 beating me, if it does it by the numbers, then you have a better sailor than I but if it does it heads up boat for boat over the same distance, there better be a good explanation for it, and if not, the numbers need to be revised..
And if in fact the system does work fairley well as you said, And I agree. there is No Chance in Hell, if skippers are of equel knowledge and ability that a W32 will beat a FIRST42 boat for boat,
So If infact that a W32 will stay with a FIRST 42 boat for boat,
Your NUMBERS are off..
Your entire postings are hearsay from yourself and only backed by others owning the boat..
Peters documentation of multi day runs with his 32 only show me that he is an experance person in the proper conditions to achive the distance and could have done the same if not more in the pearson he now owns..
The same as the win in the trans pac.. The skipper is one that has the knowledge to make the boat perform past its known perameters..
The W32 is a cruising sailboat with abilities to push it beyond its normal paramenter, by a few people that have done so..
It dosent make the boat a "Super" boat and those that did reach those extreme notable speeds or distances would have done so in any boat they would have sailed..
Because of my racing background, and the knowledge there of, all I can make a statment to is that if the boat out performs its numbers on a regular basis, and not the occasional compition win, it needs to be rerated..
With all this ranting and raving you are doing about how well the boat does in all conditions,
How much actual knowledge do you yourself have in open ocean cruising and racing with the W32..

[Dkdoyle]

Come on guys. He wanted opinions on a west sail not it's race rating.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Dkdoyle

Come on guys. He wanted opinions on a west sail not it's race rating.

It wasnt me that brought up how fast the boat is and how many ocean races its won..
But on all statements, a fair view is expected. as said, my experance is in racing and when the racing comes up, I have experance on the subject and I know the numbers, how they work.
I'm not knocking the W32.. just dont make it out to be something its not..

Its like myself saying the FIRST 42 is the best cruising boat ever built, when we all know its not.. but its my choice..

[Dkdoyle]

Peace....