Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-03-2016, 09:17   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 462
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

I will add my question to this 3d as i guess also the starter would be interested:

How much is the difference of wet-dry ride in a closed (like grand soleil, or boat with all the cockpit all around) and new boat (2005 on) with all the opening big stern swimming platform, low freeside, more opened cockpit, (let's say week ender-looking or toy boat as used on this forum)

How much would you care of this detail while looking for a boat for liveaboard and oceanic crossing?

Thanks
__________________

__________________
stefano_ita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 12:43   #32
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
I will add my question to this 3d as i guess also the starter would be interested:

How much is the difference of wet-dry ride in a closed (like grand soleil, or boat with all the cockpit all around) and new boat (2005 on) with all the opening big stern swimming platform, low freeside, more opened cockpit, (let's say week ender-looking or toy boat as used on this forum)

How much would you care of this detail while looking for a boat for liveaboard and oceanic crossing?

Thanks
Stefano,

What you described as a week-ender looking toy boat has the same cockpit layout as Comanche, Wild Oats and countless top shelf sailing boats.

With a cockpit open aft you cannot have an aft cabin though (unless we are talking about huge boats). Hence if you want a large cabin aft, you will have a center cockpit boat.

Wet/dry ride is more related to hull shape and speed. Some boats are wet others are somewhat drier. Cockpit at center is more exposed to wet when you push into any serious seas.

ETC. In a word, irrelevant. You will find wet and dry centers and wet and dry afts.

Personally, much as I like center cockpits I do get more seasick in them - I think maybe being high above the center of roll counts. Not sure if this is universal or individual though. You must sail the particular boat and see how it works for you.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 14:55   #33
Registered User
 
Juho's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 717
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
With a cockpit open aft you cannot have an aft cabin though (unless we are talking about huge boats). Hence if you want a large cabin aft, you will have a center cockpit boat.
Some boats like Nauticat 42 lift the cockpit to the roof of the aft cabin. Its cockpit has almost fully open aft (but not quite, since they seem to typically have a small step there), it has a large aft cabin, and it is not huge.
__________________
Juho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 15:20   #34
Registered User
 
Caribbeachbum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nashville
Boat: Kelly-Peterson 44
Posts: 159
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
With a cockpit open aft you cannot have an aft cabin though (unless we are talking about huge boats). Hence if you want a large cabin aft, you will have a center cockpit boat..
This is not necessarily correct now, unless of course 44' is a huge boat. My wife and I feel in love with the Jeanneau 44 DS. It's an aft cockpit with a queen size bed in an aft cabin. The interior layout is dead brilliant. We agreed it's the smallest boat we've seen that we could imagine living on for a decade or so. Of course, some of our peers will sneer at it for being a production boat.

Not sure if we can stand the sailaway depreciation of buying new, but if we could, that (or the 50 DS) would be the boat. Loved it.
__________________
Caribbeachbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 17:06   #35
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Yes. I did not mean a 100% rule. Only a more or less general observation.

44DS is a fine observation of the contrary.

The idea has been around for a while. Cigales had an open plan salon under its aft cockpit too. It was obvious a French boat would pick up where Cigale left it and build on that idea.

As always, no rules set in stone.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2016, 23:53   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 15
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Oh my. Do you play the lottery? If not, get a stronger boat. A brand new Beneteau 60 went missing not far from us in a storm. No trace. It's not the first one Beneteau to be lost. If you do get one, please get one with the longest (fore-aft) keel you can find, not the thin deep keel with weak root.

My advice is to get a Pacific Seacraft. You'll pay lots more (ask why some boats are consistently cheap and some are not), but you'll be much safer.

--
Pacific Seacraft 37 (Crealock 37) looking for a new home.
Information here: pacificseacraft37.com
__________________
Crealock37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2016, 07:35   #37
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crealock37 View Post
Oh my. Do you play the lottery? If not, get a stronger boat. A brand new Beneteau 60 went missing not far from us in a storm. No trace. It's not the first one Beneteau to be lost. If you do get one, please get one with the longest (fore-aft) keel you can find, not the thin deep keel with weak root.

My advice is to get a Pacific Seacraft. You'll pay lots more (ask why some boats are consistently cheap and some are not), but you'll be much safer.

--
Pacific Seacraft 37 (Crealock 37) looking for a new home.
Information here: pacificseacraft37.com
@ Crealock37:

I think you are painting with a very broad brush.

There are far more B* boats than C* boats plying the oceans at any given time. If anything, think of base rates. And all kinds of boats suffer from all sorts of break downs. Even an O* boat can loose her keel in a dramatic break down. One in how many?

Unless you know why that 60 footer went missing, it is a safe bet to stick to 'no body no crime' foolosophy. Or else we will be assuming too much.

I too, would prefer a C* boat for my ocean boat BUT I tend to see this as a personal taste more than anything. Even though I do not own one.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2016, 08:14   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 462
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Stefano,

What you described as a week-ender looking toy boat has the same cockpit layout as Comanche, Wild Oats and countless top shelf sailing boats.

With a cockpit open aft you cannot have an aft cabin though (unless we are talking about huge boats). Hence if you want a large cabin aft, you will have a center cockpit boat.

Wet/dry ride is more related to hull shape and speed. Some boats are wet others are somewhat drier. Cockpit at center is more exposed to wet when you push into any serious seas.

ETC. In a word, irrelevant. You will find wet and dry centers and wet and dry afts.

Personally, much as I like center cockpits I do get more seasick in them - I think maybe being high above the center of roll counts. Not sure if this is universal or individual though. You must sail the particular boat and see how it works for you.

b.
Thanks...

I'm talking about something like dofour 385, quite good interior, good exterior space and quite enclosed-protected cockpit...not the best in case of a oceanic storm but neither the worst for a good day at the anchor, getting in and out, with dinghy, ecc..



I've seen (i'm looking as this as the boat for the life, meaning live aboard for a couple, and oceanic passage, max 100k, about 40-43 ft 3 cabins, 2 head) a sun odyssey 42 CC, it was very tall, safe, ecc (the owner get 2x atlantic passage) but with many cons, like vertical stairs, no space for ouside living (as all the Center Cockpit) small table in the cockpit, eccc..

At the end of many research i ended with or something like 2005 boat with ordinary aft cockpit, a bit enclosed, easy to live, spaceful, easy to get in and out of the boat while at the anchor...

I absolulty like the Sun odyssey 40 42 and 44 DS..great boat.

We saw also for the harmony 42, Poncin design, very big inside, lot of space, very clean line, ergonomic boat, ouside very good but the interior...Hell..Someone save me...

Is it possible to you to cover all with wood? Glue it to the original fiberglass?

__________________
stefano_ita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2016, 11:37   #39
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Thanks...

I'm talking about something like dofour 385, (...) not the best in case of a oceanic storm (...)





We saw also for the harmony 42, Poncin design, very big inside, lot of space, very clean line, ergonomic boat, ouside very good but the interior...Hell..Someone save me...

Is it possible to you to cover all with wood? Glue it to the original fiberglass?


I think that Dufour cockpit looks no problem for storm action. What I do not like is that on a long ocean watch you will be exposed all the time to the wind and sun. Think about one day of storm per every one thousand of windy and sunny days. I like the 'ocean cockpit' to offer max shelter from wind and sun.

Big white areas on that Harmony are a good thing when you want to spot, smash and clean after roach hunting. They are far more difficult to spot on a wooden panel!

Sure you can cover any panels with wood but why not rather get a boat with wooden panels alright? BTW I think a Harmony is not all that great a choice if you want to make repeated ocean passages. I saw them coming 2007 to a dealer in Gelves and I did not like what I saw. They looked cheaply made and had undersized fittings. Not quite the level of an average Bava or Bene -type - generic boat.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2016, 15:50   #40
Registered User
 
Juho's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 717
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Is it possible to you to cover all with wood? Glue it to the original fiberglass?
I guess that is possible in principle, but as barnakiel said, maybe better to buy a boat with wooden interior. That increases the costs though. If you want a solid and stable boat in the 385 category with a deepish cockpit, largish aft cabin and wood interior, maybe Nauticat 385 would be one for you. I could name few other northern brands too, all unfortunately quite expensive, but there are plenty of used boats on the market (e.g. Hallberg-Rassy).
__________________
Juho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 09:19   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 462
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Thanks both.

Yep, at the end i'm pointing some Dufour...(until i will find something a little more better...)

Also Grand Soleil 40, from cantiere del pardo, italian made looks nice, well build, maybe too much sporty (26 sail area/displ) and the mainsail's rails in front of the steering wheel...

About all the nauticat, alberg rassy, formosa ketch, bruce roberts, contest, irwin, baltic, and all the other brands suggested in all the forum, i checked them all, but much if not doesn't have a sugar scoop aft part with at least a bit of space for easy up-down from water/dinghy or shower without get the cockpit wet (much of them center cockpit, small table, vertical aft)...and especially as, we are italian...for al fresco dining/lunch/breakfast, a big outside table is needed
__________________
stefano_ita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 11:06   #42
Registered User
 
Juho's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 717
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefano_ita View Post
Thanks both.

Yep, at the end i'm pointing some Dufour...(until i will find something a little more better...)

Also Grand Soleil 40, from cantiere del pardo, italian made looks nice, well build, maybe too much sporty (26 sail area/displ) and the mainsail's rails in front of the steering wheel...

About all the nauticat, alberg rassy, formosa ketch, bruce roberts, contest, irwin, baltic, and all the other brands suggested in all the forum, i checked them all, but much if not doesn't have a sugar scoop aft part with at least a bit of space for easy up-down from water/dinghy or shower without get the cockpit wet (much of them center cockpit, small table, vertical aft)...and especially as, we are italian...for al fresco dining/lunch/breakfast, a big outside table is needed
I wholeheartedly agree with the Italians on the importance of the food related facilities.

I associate sugar scoop aft part with sporty boats. Good for swimming. Maybe not so comfortable with large following seas. For me also a "wide steps" aft would be sufficient for swimming and climbing to the boat.

One more proposal. Check the X-Yachts. They have a range of more and less sporty boats with some sugar scoop orientation. And one more Nauticat. Their 515 model with a "mediterranean cockpit" might have a good enough cockpit dinner table for you.
__________________
Juho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 12:02   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 462
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juho View Post
I wholeheartedly agree with the Italians on the importance of the food related facilities.

I associate sugar scoop aft part with sporty boats. Good for swimming. Maybe not so comfortable with large following seas. For me also a "wide steps" aft would be sufficient for swimming and climbing to the boat.

One more proposal. Check the X-Yachts. They have a range of more and less sporty boats with some sugar scoop orientation. And one more Nauticat. Their 515 model with a "mediterranean cockpit" might have a good enough cockpit dinner table for you.
AAHHAHA That's Great! (Well, i won't refuse a fresh smoked salmon, smoked along a road in the morning...)

Well, in theory from quite sugar scoop, with one tall step i guess it's ok, or live new toyboat bavaria, the big and tall swimming platform protect you...

The old dofour that i'm looking the swimming platform is about 10 inch from the water...

X yatch seen but we don't like the interior,too sporty, too much regatta oriented, all the nauticat would be a dream, even the 37 ft...but not less for 200k or lot more..
__________________
stefano_ita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 12:09   #44
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

If one is after open space good table vast cockpit al fresco then recent Bene and Jeanneau are outstanding. The extra beam all the way aft helps the designer. As noted, X-Yachts have a series of similar cockpit, better quality boats too. As does Arcona.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 12:55   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 462
Re: Thoughts on Liveaboards for Atlantic Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If one is after open space good table vast cockpit al fresco then recent Bene and Jeanneau are outstanding. The extra beam all the way aft helps the designer. As noted, X-Yachts have a series of similar cockpit, better quality boats too. As does Arcona.

b.
Quote...

I also look some bavaria cruiser 35 and sun odyssey 349, brand new...quality=0, floor is 3 millimeters thick,around the mast the floor need to be recutted as round not all zig zag...floor that has 1-2 mm space between the single pieces.......and this is just the floor...no way...and they are 130 k toy...

Arcona looked now for the first time...pratically no one on sale looks nice quality tho.
__________________

__________________
stefano_ita is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
atlantic crossing, liveaboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on Crossing the Southern Indian Ocean puravidasail Indian Ocean & Red Sea 14 28-09-2009 00:36
Best Time for Atlantic Crossing from France to the Central Caribbean Ram Multihull Sailboats 1 26-06-2005 17:12
Atlantic crossing andrewcsy The Library 0 14-06-2005 16:05
Crossing the Atlantic in a c&c 34? jonas Monohull Sailboats 10 14-12-2003 10:50
Available - Atlantic crossing tseliot Crew Archives 1 16-09-2003 20:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.