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Old 01-12-2014, 15:03   #16
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Read the excuse was that the reef/island did not show up on their chartplotter unless "fully zoomed".
Another case of a racer thinking ahead rather than looking ahead.
It is worse than I thought. The should know they were on a reef zone and pay special care. That's truly unbelievable. This is not a solo racer taking care of everything but a big crew with a navigator. Insurance is not going to pay for the boat.
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Old 01-12-2014, 16:00   #17
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

There is really no excuse for this. Simple negligence. Might sound a bit harsh but these guys are professionals. Or supposed to be.
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Old 01-12-2014, 16:16   #18
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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I've seen Ian Walker's (skipper Abu Dhabi) video and he says the same thing. The island only shows in certain layers. Excuse me??? If an amateur cruiser would make this mistake, he would - IMHO rightly - be crucified. Everyone - every sailor - knows not to only rely on a computer screen. These guys are supposed to be the best in the business, and they blame electronics?

Get back to basics and check a navigational chart every couple of hours, VOR skippers!

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Yeah.... I mean... electronics are only another tool!
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Old 01-12-2014, 16:25   #19
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

I wonder if they had downloaded the most detailed chart data for that area?
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Old 01-12-2014, 16:31   #20
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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I wonder if they had downloaded the most detailed chart data for that area?
Probably what they were doing instead of sailing... haha
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Old 01-12-2014, 16:45   #21
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Charles Caudrelier, skipper of Team Dongfeng notes in comment,

“We are offshore in the middle of nowhere, and on the chart, if you don’t go on the maximum zoom you can’t see anything.”

The Volvo Ocean Race skippers are relying on electronic charts to make their way around the world and in this case, the limitations of such charts appear to have let them down.

“When I was looking at the navigation a few days ago, checking these things, it took a long time for me to find them,” adds Caudrelier.

His team narrowly missed the rocks thanks to a last-minute gybe.
Another good reason to carry paper charts until electronic charting companies get there act together.
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Old 01-12-2014, 17:05   #22
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Here is the electronic CMAP chart zoomed out to full scale showing the entire world. I have put a small red X on the spot they hit. As you can see, this area of reefs are perfectly legible from the moon. Zooming in shows increasing detail of that area - and at no time does the reef disappear.

It is not an electronic/paper chart thing.

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Old 01-12-2014, 17:12   #23
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Thanks Mark... I guessed as much that it was a lame excuse
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Old 01-12-2014, 17:31   #24
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Here is a shot of her on the rocks. Certainly does not look like a reef one would miss see if someone looked.

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Old 01-12-2014, 17:37   #25
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

Come on guys, we were on a 32nm scale of Phuket and almost hit some rocks 15nms from shore in deep water. Lucky I happened to see a fraction of breaking sea 100 yards ahead as I was talking to my wife, over here shoulder. Lucky I was back at the A/P and helm so we luckily missed it. WTF, it wasn't on the plotter! I zoomed in one click to 16nm and there was a tiny X. Better lucky than good!


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Old 01-12-2014, 18:01   #26
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

This begs the question;
Do cruising sailors properly monitor their actual rhumb line track to the next plotted waypoint or just assume that any offtrack variance because of wind shifts will still be safe?

My procedure is to pre-fly along the intended track at various zoom levels to identify any offtrack dangers and pre-mark them.

Then when a sailing decision is made to go offtrack, I put in a new waypoint along the extended new COG and prefly that new course at different zoom levels to see any dangers.

I would also default to a 1 hour Zoom scale in look ahead mode to closely monitor this new track

How do others do it?
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Old 01-12-2014, 21:18   #27
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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Originally Posted by Greg4cocokai View Post
Come on guys, we were on a 32nm scale of Phuket and almost hit some rocks 15nms from shore in deep water. Lucky I happened to see a fraction of breaking sea 100 yards ahead as I was talking to my wife, over here shoulder. Lucky I was back at the A/P and helm so we luckily missed it. WTF, it wasn't on the plotter! I zoomed in one click to 16nm and there was a tiny X. Better lucky than good!


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Sorry but that has absolutely nothing to do with what happened here. They could be forgiven for hitting something that wasn't on the charts. They can't be forgiven for hitting a charted reef around a known island. It is clear from the track that they had no idea the island was there.


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Old 01-12-2014, 21:29   #28
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

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My procedure is to pre-fly along the intended track at various zoom levels to identify any offtrack dangers and pre-mark them.

Then when a sailing decision is made to go offtrack, I put in a new waypoint along the extended new COG and prefly that new course at different zoom levels to see any dangers.
That's what I do as well, but I also take the paper chart out and plot course and position. It is also advisable to set your depth alarm to 75m or so if you know you are in the vicinity of islands.

Whatever you do, you should always, ALWAYS, several times a day, check where you are, where you're going, and what possibly lies ahead, even on unlikely courses.


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Old 01-12-2014, 21:50   #29
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

[QUOTE=Pelagic;1690557

My procedure is to pre-fly along the intended track at various zoom levels to identify any offtrack dangers and pre-mark them.


How do others do it?[/QUOTE]




Well, I haven't crossed any oceans, but....

I've crossed the Gulf of Mexico a couple of times and sailed in and out of the ICW many timees. And do exactly that. Plot a course on the laptop during planning. Look for several achorages, etc.

Then plot a course on the plotter. Zoom in max and fly slowly the entire route. Moving waypoints along the way to the most central part of deep water, through markers , around bends or islands, etc.

While traveling I glance at XTE when neccessry, since zoom doesn't matter there. Deciding as I go how much I can cut corners from my plotted course to save time based on what I see ahead. Because then how much sailable area is available is much more obvious than during the route making the day before.

Hope that made sense.
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Old 01-12-2014, 22:04   #30
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Re: Team Vestas hits reef

That makes sense... I have never done a RTW ocean race but I guess on these new speed demons they are looking at the big picture of meteorological trends than sailing a rhumb line to a given waypoint.

Seems like it could be easy to forget to check the neighborhood at that pace.
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