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Old 11-02-2016, 12:10   #46
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

I heard a long time ago from a friend of a friend who's uncle knew a guy who had a boat in a marina where one was parked...

There is an odd duck out for sale in Kemah, TX with HSH Yachts.

I say "odd duck" as every so often you find boats that are well suited to cross either ocean from the East or West Coast in a marina in Kemah, TX where draft makes the boat less interesting to the average buyer. Unless, of course, they plan to use it for the intended purposes it was designed and built for.

It is a big comfortable, strong, seaworthy boat designed to be sailed anywhere by a couple and setup for ocean crossing. It does not have the massive volumes of space found in most boats designed today where the saloon doubles as a dance hall on weekends entertaining 40 friends, but you can still probably store enough provisions for 2 for a safe non-stop circumnavigation in comfort.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:11   #47
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Have owned a Hallberg Rassey and they are very well made and good sailing boats. Not sure what your size preference is but you can do search for Mahina expeditions in Friday Harbor and get lots of info on their boat I believe a 54 but may be little off. Buy the boat you Love not the one everyone thinks you should. That way when you start dishing out boat units you won't mind..Never once regretted paying up for the HR we owned and cruised for over a decade..Good Luck Don in Friday Harbor
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:17   #48
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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french piece of crap. support your local organic boat builders!
Did I read: " French piece of crap!!!"

Of course, I never though about it! only us Americans can do good stuff.
I even didn't know French knew what a sailboat is....
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Old 11-02-2016, 13:17   #49
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

I'll try!!

In that range of size and cost, I reallly think you should emphasize the naval architect and not specific brands. Ron Holland, German Frers, Chuck Paine and Robert Perry ALWAYS design seaworthy, stable, beautiful and welll thought out boats.

I would definitely have a look at the British Discovery 55 before you decide. Several circumnavigations and rave reviews (YouTube) by Ron Holland, Hallberg-Rassy 54 by German Frers or Morris 48 GT by Chuck Paine.

Last Amel I saw on Youtube went to port with a broken mast. But is probably a good boat with very nice ideas. But - since it's French - it's bound to have idiosyncratic engineering.

The Oysters I would stay away from. hull delamination and several licensed yards building them. You don't know which yard it came from.

Best
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Old 11-02-2016, 13:27   #50
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

At 6'2", headroom may be a problem for you in aft cabin and is certainly a problem in the companionway between nav station and aft cabin.

If by now, you haven't noticed the headroom issue in the companionway, I can conclude you have not yet been onboard an Amel.

Rather than depend upon opinions of people who have never sailed one, let alone been aboard one. I recommend that you go look at one through an engineer's eyes and consider the clever design and engineering which goes into an Amel. Specifically with regard to ease of access for maintenance. Usually if you see anything odd or ugly on an Amel, it's when function triumphs form.
French engineering is quirky, look at their cars and aircraft, but that does not mean it's a bad thing.

As for the helm mounted to starboard? Brilliant. Remember, 99% of the time you're on autopilot. A centre mounted wheel is the most stupid thing on a cruising sailboat - it takes up so much room in the cockpit.

In the end, no single boat is perfect. Choose the one whose flaws annoy you the least.

I would be very surprised if the Amel does not outperform any Lagoon loaded for cruising on any point of sail.
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Old 11-02-2016, 13:31   #51
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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Why do you think they are called Frogs? Besides the cuisine thing, they have webbed feet and smell of pond scum. Otherwise, they do know how to cook. Sailing is another issue. Rules of the road do not exist in France when it comes to boats nor to cars. Probably why so many Frogs seem to sail away from France and head to other parts of the globe. Get away from those anarchist sailors. Yes, most of their sailboats really are horrible.
Maybe for the same reason Americans are called things like Tanks instead of Yanks, or more to the point - Septic Tanks.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, it is great travelling to places like Paris and know that Ambassadors like you make first impressions so delightful.

I know the Charter Fleets around the world were forced to flee the fine products produced in Florida for the awful French boats that no one in their right mind would buy, much less want to put in a charter fleet to get beat up by many people who don't own a boat for a reason and still turn a profit.

Blanket statements such as yours are akin to the reasons we end up hating each other and to my French friends, ignore and forgive the ignorant man, he does not speak for the rest of us.
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Old 11-02-2016, 13:57   #52
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

If you like the idea of a solid ocean going center cockpit boat, have a look at the Island Packet 485. We have the 445 model which is fabulous. Built in Largo, FL there wouldn't be any duty payable and there are usually a few for sale on the east coast.
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Old 11-02-2016, 14:23   #53
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Well, nearly everything has been said by now... I sailed in company with a 40' Amel in Patagonia some years ago, it belonged to the couple who later wrote Cape Horn Pilot.

They were often getting teased for wearing slippers while sailing and winching their sails from inside etc and laughed and told these stories to everyone.
I went on board many times and sailed alongside them a few. Construction was superb throughout, some brilliant ideas like the single washboard controlled by a small line that disappeared down into a slot, watertight doors...
It had a feel of uncompromised, solid quality throughout.

The boat sailed ok. It was under-canvassed in light winds, but then it also motored quite well doing 6 knots on 2L/hour with its 50HP Perkins and carried quite a bit of fuel and they used it this way. It could point reasonably, better than many so called "cruisers". It was good enough to tack and make headway upwind, just not brilliant.
The mizzen wasn't getting much use a lot of the time, but in strong winds it balanced a headsail very well with the main furled.

It is not the boat for everybody in the sense that some people (like me) would feel short-changed on sailing performance and want to feel more "outside when sailing and inside when inside".
They do have very nice hulls however and slip along accordingly in the right conditions. They are no tubs.

You need to climb aboard one and even go out for a sail if possible. It is a bit of a different experience and something quite unique in its own right.
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Old 11-02-2016, 14:45   #54
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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french piece of crap. support your local organic boat builders!
Please, I am glad you are the exception on this forum.
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Old 11-02-2016, 14:53   #55
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Just for the record - I love Amels and I love France.
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Old 11-02-2016, 14:58   #56
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Dear Reed1V.
Thanks for enlightening me about France and French made stuff.
I did not even know they could make cars !!
I realize now my ignorance and will not claim any longer that the Amel are one of the most brilliantly designed and built sailboats in the World.
Maybe better a Hunter ?
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Old 11-02-2016, 15:20   #57
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

OP: if you have fallen in love with Amels, I'd say go for it and waste no time trolling for adverse comments or suggested alternatives. Life is short and when sailboat shopping it is all to easy to get bogged down in the 'analysis paralysis' trap.

Amels are idiosyncratic - as pointed out above, some people love the design quirks, others can't stand them - and a bit pricey; but a lot of practical experience and thought has gone into the details, and no credible person has ever identified serious objective faults with the build quality.

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french piece of crap. support your local organic boat builders!


"The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (1995).

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Cannot beat a Bavaria.
John 11:35. Boats built to a price point; no shame in that, but unbeatable?!
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Old 11-02-2016, 15:31   #58
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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french piece of crap. support your local organic boat builders!
Say what you will about the French, but they certainly have a long and great sailing tradition.

I see you sail a Caliber. Curiously, when I think of an American built boat that most reminds me of Amel, Caliber Yachts comes to mind. Solidly built, well-designed and thought-out as good cruising boats that place function above form and will not win many races.

(I used to own a Caliber, btw, and loved it)
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Old 11-02-2016, 15:48   #59
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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If you like the idea of a solid ocean going center cockpit boat, have a look at the Island Packet 485. We have the 445 model which is fabulous. Built in Largo, FL there wouldn't be any duty payable and there are usually a few for sale on the east coast.
Or just look at used CSY boats from the 80s. Solid, comfy, excellent layout, and tons of room. Also great motion comfort.
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Old 11-02-2016, 15:55   #60
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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The Oysters I would stay away from. hull delamination and several licensed yards building them. You don't know which yard it came from.
Oysters are certainly not for everyone, but these criticisms are unwarranted.

Oyster build quality and support are both renowned, and well deserved in my experience (I don't own one, but have sailed several).

There is no problem identifying which yard any one came from; generally indicated on a builder's plaque, but in any case readily accessible from Oyster's files. The level of documentation recorded and preserved for each individual boat is virtually unmatched.

Without wishing to excuse the Polina Star III loss, it was a large, specially-modified yacht. It's currently at least unclear that it holds any lessons for smaller production Oysters.

P.S. It's amusing that a Hallberg Rassy owner would cite delamination as a reason to stay clear of another make: much as I admire HRs - I've only sailed one of their older models, but liked it very much - they have their own issues in this regard. IIRC they won the lawsuit on somewhat technical grounds, but their reputation has certainly suffered.
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