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Old 19-12-2011, 23:08   #1
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Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

So I just bought a Santana 22 with a trailer (old but functional), main and jib sails (ok, I think...), and cushions (good!) for $500. The boat has been sitting on the hard for a long time. I'll try to attach some pics below.

I'm quite handy and love projects. I know this is a massive project. I'm wondering a) if it is worth it and b) what I should do first.

More about the boat - the cast iron keel has some deterioration towards the flange, but I don't think it is that bad. I have new keel bolts for it already, I've researched these boats enough to know those need to be replaced. The gelcoat on the sides of the hull looks pretty good, a few superficial scratches but only a few spots that need work. Below the waterline the multiple layers of paint are just flaking right off - obviously this area needs to be sanded and re-done. There is one "soft spot" on the hull where it looks like a trailer bunk has deformed part of the hull, it is slightly concaved in, but the fiberglass seems to be intact. Am I ok to fill this area, reinforce it from the inside, and re-coat?

I know I need a new rub rail.

The sails - how do I tell if they are still ok? They aren't too frayed, but the sail material is somewhat stiff and crunchy. It isn't breaking or brittle, no tears, just stiff and feels kinda old.

The inside is basically gutted but I'm not worried about that, I'm good with carpentry.

A lot of little pieces and rigging need to be replaced and I haven't gone through all of that yet. Any advice or thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 19-12-2011, 23:09   #2
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

and yes that is grass or moss or something poking through one of the empty keel bolt holes...
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Old 19-12-2011, 23:20   #3
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

Thats an unusual location for the head, isn't it? Must be for long passages in busy waters, when you can't leave the helm.

Actually, I'd quite like a project like that, myself.
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Old 19-12-2011, 23:39   #4
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

Nice little boat ! The sails may be o.k.,stiff might mean that there's a lot of resen in the cloth. If they look good but are stiff like cardboard, they may be racing sails. Stiffer material alows the sailmaker to build a sail out of lighter cloth and still have the strength it needs. Have two of your friends help you hold the sail off the ground horizontally and each of you pull away from each other at the corners and see if there is a nice draft in the sail without any bagging or rips. The main should have more draft than the headsail.
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Old 20-12-2011, 00:16   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santana22

I'm quite handy and love projects. I know this is a massive project. I'm wondering a) if it is worth it and b) what I should do first.
this is a great question that only you can answer. What is you goal for the finished boat? A pristine restoration, a weekend camper (implying an interior), a daysailer?

And the second question is how much build time do you have and when do you want to be done? And finally how much money you got?


Quote:
Originally Posted by santana22
The sails - how do I tell if they are still ok? They aren't too frayed, but the sail material is somewhat stiff and crunchy. It isn't breaking or brittle, no tears, just stiff and feels kinda old.
i would not worry about the sails for a while. I would lay them out on the driveway, get a bucket, reasonably stiff broom ans dishsoap and wash them, dry them and store them safely. Make sure they are rolled (preferable) or properly flaked to minimize creeasing. If you don't see any fraying they will be good to go for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by santana22
The inside is basically gutted but I'm not worried about that, I'm good with carpentry.
A friend here ended up with a very simple white painted interior finsih that is fully functional, easy to take care of and looks great. He uses his boat as a daysailer so berths, heads and galleys were not a priority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by santana22
A lot of little pieces and rigging need to be replaced and I haven't gone through all of that yet. Any advice or thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks!
If this were my project to tackle?

- clean up and paint the trailer. Easy weekend job and it is after all my boat "hard stand" - also a motivator to complete a little project and create a "nice" workspace
- gut the interior and all the failed wood on decks - save for patterns if possible. And then scrub the crap outta her. Buy a big tarp and keep her covered from now on
- the hull is first prioirty - remove keel, overhaul keel. Sand hull below watereline to base coat. Evaluate tops sides for repairs. Do all hull and top sides repairs including jib tracks, traveller etc.
- evaluate and repair/ replace all chain plates
- Sand topsides. Paint topsides and hull
- remount keel. At this point you have a solid foundation
- evaluate repair and rerig, rudder, rudder mount system and tiller
- evaluate, repair and rerig mast and standing rigging. Renew, replace all mast halyards, masthead light, vhf or anythng else you want on the masthead
- Rewire any electrics - nav, radio, lights etc.
- step the mast, install batteries and and 10-20 watts of solar
- install battery
- install running rigging
- find the sails you folded up 3 years ago
- reinstall toilet on starboard lazarette - a very convenient convenience at presetn - LOL
- hank on sails and go sailing

Optional
- hang a 3-4 hp outboard to get in and out of shore.
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Old 20-12-2011, 00:55   #6
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

If we could see some pics of the inside we maybe could offer better advice.

My gut feeling, fix the trailer, take off the keel, get it abrasive blasted and coated (don't drop it on your toe!), paint keel, do any repairs round keel area, repair rudder as necessary, check ans repair rigging, put on small outboard.

At this point it could be just about possible (if the bits are all there) to put the boat in the water and go sailing. The rest can be fixed up at your leisure.
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Old 29-12-2011, 13:10   #7
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

UPDATE

I dropped the keel, not on my foot. One of the keel bolts was so badly rusted I had to use a cutting torch to blow through it, and the fiberglass still looks fine. I'm at the beach in Mexico this week with amazing weather and no boat, I want to finish this project so I can enjoy it!

A couple of questions...
1. I started sanding the keel, as some parts of it the bare metal was exposed I think I should just take all the fairing off, some of it was flaking off anyway. What is the best way to repaint/resurface the keel once all the old paint, fairing, rust is off and I've just got a giant piece of metal? I'd like it to be smooth and durable, as easily as possible. I have the keel flat on a piano mover/dolly so I can push it around the driveway. once one side and the bottom are finished I'll right it onto a board with jacks under it so I can jack it back up to boat level when I'm finished. 1200 pounds of metal - yikes

2. You can see from the pictures that I started sanding off the multiple layers of bottom paint. There were at least 5 layers, all pretty bad. The top layer or two are so bad you can almost wipe them off with your hand or fingernail. I know I need a good surface to repaint on. As I was sanding through them, I didn't seem to hit a thick gelcoat layer. It seemed like it went from paint to bare fiberglass fairly quickly. Is this a problem? I just want to get this awful old paint off and re-paint the bottom - any suggestions on methods, paint, etc? Also, I'm using an orbital sander/polisher with a 60 grit velcro sandpaper disc, which is really fast. I might try a 100 grit because it'll give me a bit more control. Or should I be using a belt sander to avoid gouging? What is the best way to repaint it once I've got all the old crap off?

3. It is a 22' boat, and there is a lot of work to be done of the bottom, sanding, smoothing, repainting, etc. Is it worth getting a bunch of people over to my place to flip the boat over, put it under my porch, do all the work, then have to flip it back up onto the trailer or should I just suffer through it and work upside-down? Any idea how heavy this boat is without the keel, and with nothing on the interior? I'd like to flip it so I could work on the trailer and bunks more easily as well, but this boat seems really heavy, hull is thick, and I'm wondering if I need 10 people or 30 people to flip it.

4. Any idea what these metal things are that look like gas stove burners? I thought they were gas stove burners until I found 7 of them stowed all over the boat. Are they light covers? I can't find a picture of another Santana 22 that shows me what they are...
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Old 29-12-2011, 14:14   #8
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

I'd suggest working with a friendly paint supplier. In your neck of the woods Ameron seems to have a few fans, and their representatives to be fairly clued up. Why not give them a call and see what they recommend for the keel and the fibreglass?

If you can turn the boat over without damage to it or any of the turners it would make bottom work way easier. You'd have to be careful as it's probably not designed to sit upside down. Do think through any action as, again, you really don't want the boat to fall on anyone's toe. Maybe have some strong supports to hold up the boat at various times during any moves.

My feeling is to bribe first with food, but don't let anyone near the beer until the job is complete.

No idea what those "stove burners" are.
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Old 29-12-2011, 20:36   #9
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

Generally when stripping the bottom people prefer soda-blasting, because it'll remove the paint but not the gelcoat. What you'll have to do, as you'll have taken off or damaged the gelcoat, is put a couple of layers of epoxy barrier coat on to keep moisture out of the hull, with paint on top of that.

You are using a mask when doing the sanding, aren't you?
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Old 29-12-2011, 21:20   #10
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
Generally when stripping the bottom people prefer soda-blasting, because it'll remove the paint but not the gelcoat. What you'll have to do, as you'll have taken off or damaged the gelcoat, is put a couple of layers of epoxy barrier coat on to keep moisture out of the hull, with paint on top of that.

You are using a mask when doing the sanding, aren't you?
Thanks Mark. That's what I was thinking, after watching some Youtube videos. Seems like the epoxy is a must, then paint.
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Old 29-12-2011, 21:45   #11
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Re: Santana 22 overhaul - where do I start?

I have found my copy of Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual (try saying that 3 times!) to be invaluable. Lots of stuff on refinishing, bottom, topsides, you name it.
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Old 30-12-2011, 07:56   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santana22
UPDATE

I dropped the keel, not on my foot. One of the keel bolts was so badly rusted I had to use a cutting torch to blow through it, and the fiberglass still looks fine. I'm at the beach in Mexico this week with amazing weather and no boat, I want to finish this project so I can enjoy it!

A couple of questions...
1. I started sanding the keel, as some parts of it the bare metal was exposed I think I should just take all the fairing off, some of it was flaking off anyway. What is the best way to repaint/resurface the keel once all the old paint, fairing, rust is off and I've just got a giant piece of metal? I'd like it to be smooth and durable, as easily as possible. I have the keel flat on a piano mover/dolly so I can push it around the driveway. once one side and the bottom are finished I'll right it onto a board with jacks under it so I can jack it back up to boat level when I'm finished. 1200 pounds of metal - yikes

2. You can see from the pictures that I started sanding off the multiple layers of bottom paint. There were at least 5 layers, all pretty bad. The top layer or two are so bad you can almost wipe them off with your hand or fingernail. I know I need a good surface to repaint on. As I was sanding through them, I didn't seem to hit a thick gelcoat layer. It seemed like it went from paint to bare fiberglass fairly quickly. Is this a problem? I just want to get this awful old paint off and re-paint the bottom - any suggestions on methods, paint, etc? Also, I'm using an orbital sander/polisher with a 60 grit velcro sandpaper disc, which is really fast. I might try a 100 grit because it'll give me a bit more control. Or should I be using a belt sander to avoid gouging? What is the best way to repaint it once I've got all the old crap off?

3. It is a 22' boat, and there is a lot of work to be done of the bottom, sanding, smoothing, repainting, etc. Is it worth getting a bunch of people over to my place to flip the boat over, put it under my porch, do all the work, then have to flip it back up onto the trailer or should I just suffer through it and work upside-down? Any idea how heavy this boat is without the keel, and with nothing on the interior? I'd like to flip it so I could work on the trailer and bunks more easily as well, but this boat seems really heavy, hull is thick, and I'm wondering if I need 10 people or 30 people to flip it.

4. Any idea what these metal things are that look like gas stove burners? I thought they were gas stove burners until I found 7 of them stowed all over the boat. Are they light covers? I can't find a picture of another Santana 22 that shows me what they are...
You are doing great!

Try taking a look around santana22.com

I found a link to a guy who did exactly what you are doing. He did flip his boat over and looks like he did it with slings.

It also looks like he bolted his keel down to some 4X4s upside down to work on it. Nice to be able to finish the whole keel at once.

The orbital sander is quick but aggressive. Looks like you are down to fiberglass in several areas. With the orbital sander you want to take care you dont get highs and lows and a wavy hull in the end.

Definitely worthwhile to flip the boat.

Here is the link to the bottom finish article http://www.dilworth.org/archive/boat/haulout.php
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