Opinions sought on Canadian Sailcraft CS-40

[JulieMac]

We've been in the market for a 38-42' coastal cruiser for the last year.

Last summer we looked at a number of late 80's Ericson 38's and some early 80's Sabre's and Tartans. The Ericson 38 we wanted to make an offer on was sold a few days after we saw the boat.

I spotted a late 80's Canadian Sailcraft CS-40, designed by Tony Castro. It's local to us, here in the Great Lakes, and needs no shipping-a big plus.

Does anyone have any experience with this particular model? It's similar to the CS 38 Merlin, only bigger. This particular one is a 5' shoal draft model. Wing keel and deep keel models are available for sale on the east coast, but that defeats the purpose of buying a local, fresh water boat.

We'll initially use the boat in Lake Michigan, with the goal to end up in Florida or the Bahamas when we retire. (probably not as liveaboards)

Opinions, anyone?

[Vasco]

CS 40 is a nice boat. Not many built. There is no CS38, you must mean the CS36 Merlin. Both are Tony Castro designs. Solid glass hull below the waterline. Vacuum bagged above. It would be a great boat for Bahamas. Hardware is all quality. They changed the configuration a bit from the first one that had a sink in the aft cabin. The first one was owned by Hans Fogh. Check out the CS owners site on Yahoo for more info.

[robert sailor]

Friends of ours are cruising on a CS40. CS's were some of the best built Canadian boats, good quality construction and a fast sailor. If the boat has been well kept, most fresh water boats were, and you like the layout,storage, tank age etc. its hard to go wrong on this boat. Good luck! Vasco is correct by the way, they never built a 38, next size down with 2 -36's, the Merlin and the Traditional.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Friends of ours are cruising on a CS40.

Is that "Toy Box" ? In the BVI?

[JulieMac]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Friends of ours are cruising on a CS40. CS's were some of the best built Canadian boats, good quality construction and a fast sailor. If the boat has been well kept, most fresh water boats were, and you like the layout,storage, tank age etc. its hard to go wrong on this boat. Good luck! Vasco is correct by the way, they never built a 38, next size down with 2 -36's, the Merlin and the Traditional.

Yes, you're right about the 36, not a 38. Oops!

Do your friends have a shallow or deep keel?

As for well kept, it was immaculate with a full winter cover down to the waterline. A year ago, that cover didn't make it on, and a couple of ports leaked causing minor damage inside. The cover is back on this winter.

[robert sailor]

They have a shoal draft and no its not in the Caribbean side yet, its been on the west coast, Mexico and points south for several years. They love their boat and its very well set up for cruising. Few problems with it over the years, normal equipment stuff, nothing related to the design.

[JulieMac]

Originally Posted by Vasco

They changed the configuration a bit from the first one that had a sink in the aft cabin. The first one was owned by Hans Fogh. Check out the CS owners site on Yahoo for more info.

I know that one of the cabins, in fact, has a sink. Not sure if it's in the Vee berth or aft cabin. This boat is a 1989 version. Not sure what the first production year was, or how many were built.

I believe the hull is balsa cored above the waterline, and solid below.

[robert sailor]

The CS group used to be an active one, especially the ones on the West coast. We owned and sailed a CS36T around 20 years ago. Also a great boat, we sailed it throughout Mexico, Hawaii and Vancouver, great boat!

[JulieMac]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

They have a shoal draft and no its not in the Caribbean side yet, its been on the west coast, Mexico and points south for several years. They love their boat and its very well set up for cruising. Few problems with it over the years, normal equipment stuff, nothing related to the design.

Someone told me that the shallow bilge found in this model, and the Merline C36, would not lend itself to ocean cruising. Too much smelly water coming up through the floorboards in case of excessive heeling and weather.

Did your friend experience this, or should this be a concern of ours if we're coastal cruising?

[robert sailor]

Your point on a shallow bilge is legitimate, all the CS's had shallow bilges including the CS36 Traditional. Its the one feature I did not like.
Simply put you just have to make sure that you keep the water on the outside because if you are offshore and take on water it is harder to get rid of in a shallow bilge.
Key here is to make sure that no water can come in through an anchor locker so just make sure that area is completely sealed off and you are likely going to have a dusty bilge.
I never had smells from the bilge area but I did find a leak in the anchor locker unfortunately I was beating into compressed trade winds for a week when I did find it and it was a real pain in the butt to deal with. When the passage was over I did make repairs that permanently sealed that area.
It is a drawback for sure but the rest of the boat and the quality is excellent....

[sealubber]

Canadians don't typically build great boats. At least not in Canada. There have been some good Canadian sailors and designers but I have never seen a well engineered boat leaving Canada in the past 20 years. Even the C&C was heavily flawed in a lot of ways.

Its like Bob Perry followers their view of the actual act of sailing is very skewed. They are more about living below than actually getting from point a to point b.

[satdiver]

Originally Posted by sealubber

Canadians don't typically build great boats. At least not in Canada. There have been some good Canadian sailors and designers but I have never seen a well engineered boat leaving Canada in the past 20 years. Even the C&C was heavily flawed in a lot of ways.

Its like Bob Perry followers their view of the actual act of ling is very skewed. They are more about living below than actually getting from point a to point b.

I don't agree when Bruckman was the C&C builder you got solid sailors. When they moved to Fairpoint you lost some quality because they were experimenting with the design.

Mark was is or was a big time drunk and his dad Eric produced some of the best and fasting sailing smaller sized boats I've seen. Tim Jacket took over quality control who also managed the qa on tartans which is sometimes questionable. Tim also inherited his job in a way but is ample at managing qa on a larger production scale.

Calgan built alot of the smaller Cals which are still lasting and good racers

Whitby Boatworks built the Alberg 30 and 37 and the Continental 25

Cooper produced the Catalina 27 which several of those have circumnavigated. And they produced the Banner 37 which was a heavily built fast ocean capable boat. And they produced the Sea Bird 37 which was of questionable quality because of the owner involvement they allowed in builds.

As for Bob Perry, I personally don't like him. For personal reasons. But he designed some really cool boats and he brought cruising to the masses in my opinion with some of his designs. He was a advocate of building heavy overbuilt full keel boats but that's what makes some people feel safe at sea and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people prefer to sail his bouys but he did also spend some time dealing with QA because he took pride in his work.

[robert sailor]

I don't entirely disagree with Sealubber as the best boats Canada produced are over 20 years old. Past that time period Canada built some wonderful sailboats and the list is a long one.

[robert sailor]

If your into steel or aluminum Canada does some world class work.

[JulieMac]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Your point on a shallow bilge is legitimate, all the CS's had shallow bilges including the CS36 Traditional. Its the one feature I did not like.
Simply put you just have to make sure that you keep the water on the outside because if you are offshore and take on water it is harder to get rid of in a shallow bilge.
Key here is to make sure that no water can come in through an anchor locker so just make sure that area is completely sealed off and you are likely going to have a dusty bilge.
I never had smells from the bilge area but I did find a leak in the anchor locker unfortunately I was beating into compressed trade winds for a week when I did find it and it was a real pain in the butt to deal with. When the passage was over I did make repairs that permanently sealed that area.
It is a drawback for sure but the rest of the boat and the quality is excellent....

Couple of questions, Robert. How did u seal properly the anchor locker? I thought much of the water intrusion is from the mast, propeller shaft or other fittings. What about those?