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Old 23-07-2007, 11:19   #1
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Newport 28 II

Hello gang. We are thinking about making the subject boat our "starter" boat. We intend to weekend it and stay coastal. Our most adventurous future plan is to head out the rigs in the gulf (20 miles out) to go diving occasionally.

I have a few questions I hope someone can help me with. We are going to have a survey prior to the actual purchase but I'd love to save that money if some of the seasoned captains on here read this and discourage me based on my questions below...

1) The standing rigging on the boat is in obvious need of replacement. Assuming that none of the spars need to be replaced, what would this typically cost (including labor)? This is an ~20 year old boat. If everything on the deck is original, is it unreasonable to assume that only the standing rigging would need replacement?

2) I did notice that the boat appeared to have struck a dock or piling at some point because the pulpit area had what appeared to be some shoddy repairs. At the point in the bow where the toe rails come together, the toe rails are 1/8" out of vertical alignment. There appears to be some goopy white stuff slopped in to this area as well. I checked the through-bolts holding the deck to the hull and these appear to be undamaged. My question is this. Assuming that there was quite an impact there, would this area of a plywood cored deck likely be cored? And, if so, now have absorbed a ton of water?

3) I noticed that near a couple of scuppers (sp?) under the toe rail in a few places, the gel boat appears to have peeled but not all the way down to the core. Is this a serious problem or more of a cosmetic problem?

4) In the rather small bilge, there is a sump area that appears to hold a few gallons of water. I lifted the float switch on the bilge pump but the pump couldn't evacuate this water (it was at its minimum depth). What happens to this water if the boat heels seriously? Does it end up in the lockers, etc? I assume the bilge water is mostly brine. Wouldn't that cause potential electrical problems if got on sensitive electronics in a locker?

5) I noticed that the manual head is seriously corroded where it is attachs at its base. I was thinking that salty stuff probably got rinsed with the hand showers frequently in there and that was a likely cause of this corrosion. I'm wondering if that thinking is valid or if this is an indication of some other problem (galvanic corrosion...)?

6) We are unable to test sail the boat because of the standing rigging problems... should this necessarily be a "non-starter" for the purchase?

7) Are we being foolish to assume that a good surveyor will protect us from making a very poor purchase decision?

8) On a morbid note, what happens to a boat that is deemed to be much more expensive to repair than its worth? Are there old boat scrap yards that purchase these? Is fiberglass recyclable?

Thanks a ton for reading this large post.

Darrell
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Old 23-07-2007, 12:32   #2
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Howdy Darrell,

There are a number of Newport 28s around the Clear Lake area. I've never sailed on one but know people who own and like them. You can expect to replace the standing rigging a boat this old. Sitx and Rigging are the guys in our area. While there are a number of competent riggers, Stix stands behind their work better than most. Call them for an estimate. (I am sure they have their detractors but I have met none of them.) Collision and corrosion will be common problems and may or may not be an issue. A survey will tell. As for the bilge I would not worry about the water. Most boats in this range have small bilges, especially those designed by C&C and if you do get her far enough over to empty the bilge, wet locker interiors will be the least of your worries.

Surveyors often walk a fine line between being fair to their customer (you) and keeping their source of customers (the broker) happy. A good surveyor will not let a problem get past their survey but some surveys are tougher then others. Generally one would not use the surveyor suggested by the broker, but it is a small world and choosing your own surveyor may not find him any more impartial. I use Summer and Associates because I know them, but I hear that Mike Firestone out of Rockport is about as good as they get.

Here is a question related to your starter question. Do you want to fix a a boat over the next several weeks or sail it? The Newport will make a reasonable starter boat but if it needs a lot of work it may not be your best choice.

See you on the bay...

pv
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Old 23-07-2007, 14:31   #3
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PV,

Thanks for the response... much appreciated.

I'll be contacting those riggers today.

Summers & Associates has a nice website with sample reports. Very informative!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pura Vida
Here is a question related to your starter question. Do you want to fix a a boat over the next several weeks or sail it? The Newport will make a reasonable starter boat but if it needs a lot of work it may not be your best choice.

See you on the bay...

pv
Maybe I'm weird but I'm actually looking forward to fixing up a boat. I don't want to get in to anything over my head though. The rigging looks like something better left to a pro. I'm an electrical engineer so I should be able to tackle the AC/DC systems. I'm not sure how much work it needs that would prevent me from sailing any time soon. The rigging was obvious but I'm not sure what else is going to pop up on survey. I know the boat has been mostly idle for 3 years (which scares me). The thing is, I like the lines of this boat... it calls to me

Darrell
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Old 23-07-2007, 22:48   #4
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1) Some time on the phone and with a marine catalogue is indicated.

2) You have possibly checked this as well as any surveyor. If you cannot determine the extent of any damage visually some form of disassemby or destructive testing may be necessary if you really need to know.

4) I thought that allowing salt water to swirl destructivly through their boats was the favourite pastime of plastic boat owners.

5) Figure on total replacement of the complete system. Some time with a marine catalogue is indicated.

6) Unless the price is the bargain of the century this could be a good time to think about walking away.

7) Yes.

8) Some poor sucker pays to have it scrapped.

On a general note one sometimes comes across late model boats that have been loved to death by an owner with bottomless pockets, paticularly in the smaller sizes. Finding and fixing the problems on boats like this can be almost pleasant.
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Old 24-07-2007, 21:13   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drh1965
Hello gang. We are thinking about making the subject boat our "starter" boat. We intend to weekend it and stay coastal. Our most adventurous future plan is to head out the rigs in the gulf (20 miles out) to go diving occasionally.

I have a few questions I hope someone can help me with. We are going to have a survey prior to the actual purchase but I'd love to save that money if some of the seasoned captains on here read this and discourage me based on my questions below...

1) The standing rigging on the boat is in obvious need of replacement. Assuming that none of the spars need to be replaced, what would this typically cost (including labor)? This is an ~20 year old boat. If everything on the deck is original, is it unreasonable to assume that only the standing rigging would need replacement?

2) I did notice that the boat appeared to have struck a dock or piling at some point because the pulpit area had what appeared to be some shoddy repairs. At the point in the bow where the toe rails come together, the toe rails are 1/8" out of vertical alignment. There appears to be some goopy white stuff slopped in to this area as well. I checked the through-bolts holding the deck to the hull and these appear to be undamaged. My question is this. Assuming that there was quite an impact there, would this area of a plywood cored deck likely be cored? And, if so, now have absorbed a ton of water?

3) I noticed that near a couple of scuppers (sp?) under the toe rail in a few places, the gel boat appears to have peeled but not all the way down to the core. Is this a serious problem or more of a cosmetic problem?

4) In the rather small bilge, there is a sump area that appears to hold a few gallons of water. I lifted the float switch on the bilge pump but the pump couldn't evacuate this water (it was at its minimum depth). What happens to this water if the boat heels seriously? Does it end up in the lockers, etc? I assume the bilge water is mostly brine. Wouldn't that cause potential electrical problems if got on sensitive electronics in a locker?

5) I noticed that the manual head is seriously corroded where it is attachs at its base. I was thinking that salty stuff probably got rinsed with the hand showers frequently in there and that was a likely cause of this corrosion. I'm wondering if that thinking is valid or if this is an indication of some other problem (galvanic corrosion...)?

6) We are unable to test sail the boat because of the standing rigging problems... should this necessarily be a "non-starter" for the purchase?

7) Are we being foolish to assume that a good surveyor will protect us from making a very poor purchase decision?
Yo Darrell,

what you are proposing is to buy a dog.

There are so many good boats for sale-- I really hope you will realize the need for you to perform the due dilligence required before buying.

best, andy
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Old 25-07-2007, 05:54   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
Yo Darrell,

what you are proposing is to buy a dog.

There are so many good boats for sale-- I really hope you will realize the need for you to perform the due dilligence required before buying.

best, andy
Thanks for your response...

We've been looking at boats for nearly 2 years. I find problems with every boat at this price point (and significantly higher). We're looking for something to learn on/from that can bridge us to our retirement boat. It is always a bunch of tradeoffs, guesses and leaps of faith when trying to buy a boat and get good advice. At least, that's how it appears to me.

We like the looks of this boat and the verve with which other owners of this particular make of boat speak of them.
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Old 25-07-2007, 05:55   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay
1) Some time on the phone and with a marine catalogue is indicated.

2) You have possibly checked this as well as any surveyor. If you cannot determine the extent of any damage visually some form of disassemby or destructive testing may be necessary if you really need to know.

4) I thought that allowing salt water to swirl destructivly through their boats was the favourite pastime of plastic boat owners.

5) Figure on total replacement of the complete system. Some time with a marine catalogue is indicated.

6) Unless the price is the bargain of the century this could be a good time to think about walking away.

7) Yes.

8) Some poor sucker pays to have it scrapped.

On a general note one sometimes comes across late model boats that have been loved to death by an owner with bottomless pockets, paticularly in the smaller sizes. Finding and fixing the problems on boats like this can be almost pleasant.
Thank you.
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Old 25-07-2007, 06:46   #8
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Is the boat on Ron's dock? I'm heading down there today.
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Old 25-07-2007, 10:59   #9
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No. Its in Seabrook Marina in the very back, right next to the large mound.
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Old 25-07-2007, 18:42   #10
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Quote:
We're looking for something to learn on/from that can bridge us to our retirement boat. It is always a bunch of tradeoffs, guesses and leaps of faith when trying to buy a boat and get good advice. At least, that's how it appears to me.
I've sailed a 30 and a 27. I know someone that sailed a 27 from Baltimore, MD to OZ, but decided to sell it and not finish the trip. If there is one word that sums up a Newport it's "unremarkable". OK, so maybe a great boat to sail around on close to home to get ready for the ultimate boat. In that respect I would jump on it. Bottom line - they ain't nothing special. The Newport 30 is a far better boat in comparison. A neighbor had a 27 and upgraded to the 30.
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Old 25-07-2007, 22:12   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drh1965
Thanks for your response...

We've been looking at boats for nearly 2 years. I find problems with every boat at this price point (and significantly higher). We're looking for something to learn on/from that can bridge us to our retirement boat. It is always a bunch of tradeoffs, guesses and leaps of faith when trying to buy a boat and get good advice. At least, that's how it appears to me.

We like the looks of this boat and the verve with which other owners of this particular make of boat speak of them.
Yo Darrell,

my experience tells me that what you have briefly described is a long-abused, long-neglected, older, entry-level boat--what I mean to say is that it has fallen on hard times.

While there certainly seem to be many of this type for sale cheap, the difference in selling price between this "fixer-upper" and a well-cared-for creampuff from a knowledgeable owner must be a fraction of the cost of refitting the dog.

If you desire a "project", rather than actually wanting to sail, and have a lot of free time to spend on this project, and are known to be clever with your hands, know your way around tools, and have a family who will support your new project, and are restricted by an insufficient budget (for the desired boat size), then perhaps there is no choice.

If, on the other hand, your family is anxious to actually begin sailing soon, or your free time is limited, maybe you'd like the peace of mind which comes frome knowing that your investment can more likely be recovered when you decide to move up from a creampuff.

Good luck with your search.

best, andy
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Old 26-07-2007, 11:38   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
While there certainly seem to be many of this type for sale cheap, the difference in selling price between this "fixer-upper" and a well-cared-for creampuff from a knowledgeable owner must be a fraction of the cost of refitting the dog.
Andy, I understand what you are saying... but its hard (at least for me) to ascertain the level of care a boat has had over the years. If I could categorically look at a boat and say "that one over there is a creampuff", I'd be all over it. Unfortunately......

I guess I'm trying to find a boat that I know to be safe/solid for coastal cruising and does not have any significant problems I can't handle myself. If you know of such a boat, under 20k, in the Houston area, please let me know.

Thanks!
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Old 26-07-2007, 19:44   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drh1965
Andy, I understand what you are saying... but its hard (at least for me) to ascertain the level of care a boat has had over the years. If I could categorically look at a boat and say "that one over there is a creampuff", I'd be all over it. Unfortunately......
Yo Darrell,

this is most helpful. Like Clint Eastwood says "A man's got to know his limitations." Here is an area where you can help yourself by developing a relationship with a competent, well-regarded broker. Due dilligence required choosing one. Many might be anxious to sell what they have themselves listed, but instruct him to find such a vessel as you require. He will know a creampuff when he finds it, and you will have benefitted from his experience. A competent marine surveyor is also required, but their time is extremely expensive, so KNOW that your chosen vessel is worth that expense.

You added:
"I guess I'm trying to find a boat that I know to be safe/solid for coastal cruising and does not have any significant problems I can't handle myself. If you know of such a boat, under 20k, in the Houston area, please let me know."

An old boat will come with its' own set of problems, and unwritten list of deferred maintenance. It is common just for a major refit to exceed the initial cost of the boat.

UNLESS--you find one which has been lovingly kept up to date by dedicated, knowledgeable owners who were fortunate enough to be able to afford the on-going expense of a proper maintenance program. Such a boat will likely come with a logbook and a complete set of equipment manuals, as well as spare parts. The sails and rigging will likely have been upgraded over the years. There will not be signs of accidents whose repairs had been ignored. This boat will offer you the absolute most bang-for-the-buck.

Because a sailboat of this size is so easily transportable (presumably it sails and motors), do not restrict yourself to only your immediate area. Mine was found in San Leandro Marina (San Francisco Bay area)--a two-day delivery trip to Ventura Harbor with friends.

Perseverance furthers.

best, andy
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Old 27-07-2007, 03:51   #14
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Excerpted from:

USED BOAT NOTEBOOK ~ By John Kretschmer (Sailing Magazine October 2001)

Newport 28
Although inexpensively built, this weekend cruiser has a spacious interior and nice sailing manners.
sailingmagazine.net/ubn_newport28.html

“... Designed by C&C, back in the days when C&C was confident enough to farm out its design team to other builders, the Newport 28 was, and still is, a handsome boat.

Good looks, however, didn’t necessarily translate into good quality, and nobody will ever accuse Capital Yachts of overbuilding the 28. In fact, many construction flaws and cost-cutting measures have been well documented over the years. At the same time, however, the boat was never intended to be an offshore cruiser or racer, being designed instead as an affordable family boat for club racing, daysailing and weekend cruising.

It is easy to pick on boats that were built with price in mind, but without the Newport 28s, Catalina 27s, Hunter 27s and others, there would be far fewer people on the water. Sailing desperately needs affordable, entry-level boats, and besides, the Newport 28 does have many attributes. The interior is spacious and well thought out. The boat performs admirably in light to moderate air and does well racing under PHRF. There are active one-design fleets, especially on the West Coast, and most boats have been consistently upgraded. In 1982, Capital Yachts introduced the modified 28 II, which included a deeper standard keel and a diesel engine among other changes ...

... The Newport 28 was a production boat through and through, and although its scantlings were not dramatically lighter than other production boats of the time, Capital Yachts didn’t waste any material. Most of the noted defects were in the details and fitting out, not the actual layups ...”


And more ... Sailing Magazine
< sailingmagazine.net/ubn_newport28.html >

The Sailing Magazine USED BOAT NOTEBOOK by John Kretschmer has lots of boat reviews:
Sailing Magazine
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Old 05-08-2007, 12:28   #15
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Well, the survey went very well so I am now the owner of a 1987 Newport 28 II.

Thanks for the feedback.
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