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manitu · 26-10-2011, 13:16

All good points , my friends.

Am I bluewater capable? Well , I've had motorboats since I was 7 , I've grown up on the atlantic/artic seafront , and been out in 4-6 meter waves in my 17ft speedboat on several ocations. I've also been a short period on a 50 ft fishing boat out of the russian border north of norway. But the sailing kind of bluewater capable?? No. But I'm willing to learn.

Modifying the boat: all hatches will be replaced. the cockpit with drains will be modified, spare rudder hinges will be mounted. About the resale value?? Come on folks, ther isn't any! I got her for 2500$

Interior space: No problem! Only two person crew. And on really friendly terms.

The purpose of the boat is to take us from northern norway to the mediterranian. we plan to live in spain or greece for a year or so , once the loan on the house is paid.
There is no stretch of water on the first tour wich is longer than a couple of days , and the med is generally flat water. I will use the boat next summer in my home waters (wich can be pretty challenging) to get to know her.

We plan to rent out the house to students (university nearby) , and test out the lifestyle to see if it is something for us.

I only know the nortern sea , I got it at my livingroom window, and "lost at sea" has been the most comon death in my family for several generations. I will need some time to master the sailing bit, I'm crew on a local Elan 37 once a week while I wait to get my own boat ready. I do not think I'm ready for a south pole expedition , but hey , everybody started somewhere.. and I do think I got some useful background.

But anyhow , I originally wanted to discuss the design of the hull , and it's capabilities in what some call bluewater conditions. Narrow transoms for cruising on following seas? noted.

Thanks for all kind of input, and please continue to share your experiences.

.manitu

**boatman61** · 26-10-2011, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitu

I'm looking for a bluewater capable sailboat , to go cruising on a budget.

I recently came across this sailboat at a giveaway price.
The hull is in good shape and it comes with a solid proctor masthead rig.
The sails and interior needs fixin' but...

My question: Do you think this design is a good one for bluewater cruising?
First up will be the norwegian sea , scandinavian sea , and bay of biscay.

http://cache.finn.no/mmo/2011/9/9/4/..._331278391.jpg
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/2011/9/9/4/...1776279432.jpg
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/2011/9/9/4/...-855643657.jpg

I know this is a narrow boat with little freeboard(?), but it has a deep v hull shape so I hope it is up for the job.

.manitu

Hi Manitu...
Nice looking boat... what is she.. 8-8.5m...?
Personally I think she will do you very nicely...

whats the interior and storage space like...

**Pete7** · 26-10-2011, 13:35

Manitu,

I think for your planned voyage you will be fine and if you keep it simple and the financial risk is also small if it doesn't turn out to be what you wanted.

Couple of thoughts, please do a search on here for John Vigor and then read this book he wrote:

Bookstore

So much good information to think about before you change anything that it will be worth its weight in gold.

Second thought is the med will be hot during the summer. So you need to think about shade and cooling. Lots of advice on here about both so worth using the early winter to read in depth.

If you can cross the North Sea in her, which presumably she was designed for then the rest of the trip shouldn't be a problem.

Lastly, were are the stanchions? something else for the shopping list.

Pete

barnakiel · 26-10-2011, 15:22

Hej Manu,

I do not know of any sea named Scandinavian Sea. Where is that?

The hull looks fine. Make sure there are no structural issues. It will take time to get her sea-ready. Time and money and sweat. The money/sweat ratio will depend on your skills and on your money.

The cockpit is way big. No good should you get pooped. If you sail enough, you will. This can be somewhat helped by filling the cockpit on a passage to reduce its volume. The topsides are low no issue but the coaming is pretty close to water - you will get wet and a lot so.

Add some sort of stanchions lifelines unless you like swimming too much.

As noted by colleagues above - the windows may require re-glassing in a thicker material that will overlap the edge by a good margin. No fun having an old window pushed in by a nasty wave.

Our little ship not much bigger than yours. Took us everywhere.

Cheers.
b.

DeepFrz · 26-10-2011, 15:56

You are planning a whole lot of structural changes. Methinks you would be better off looking for a boat that more closely suits your requirements than to try and modify a boat that much. Making the kind of modifications you plan will be expensive, labor intensive and will take a lot of work. And will probably not turn out as you expect. Just MHO.

SimonV · 26-10-2011, 16:16

The trip you are talking about is coastal, and can be broken down into day trips. Pick your weather and you could do it in a bath tub.

manitu · 26-10-2011, 18:07

About the names of oceans:

The sea between Sweden and Denmark is kalled "kattegat" in norwegian, between Norway and Denmark is kalled "skagerak". This is what I was refering to as "Scandinavian sea".

The stretch from shetland to the barents sea is what I was refering to as "Northern sea". I guess Norwegian sea would be more correct. This is what I got outside, with few islands sheltering the coastline.

Yeah , the trip could be done entirely coastal , but that would mean a number of detours. I want to go across from Norway to Denmark , and across the bay of biscay. could go around though , I've bought the boat , so unless I'm not satisfied whith the boat , this is the one I'll use.

Structural changes.. The only structural change I'm planning is stretching the cabin a bit towards the stern, to get more interior space , and a smaller cockpit. And maybe , just maybe lower the rear cabin roof a bit to get a more harmonic look , with the smaller windows I'm putting in. I'll keep the bulkhead under the mast , add a bulkhead between the front bed and the sail locker (looks like there was a removeable wall there before),and maybe add a bulkhead between the new main hatch position and the cabin , depending on where I decide to put the bathroom.

Maybe I should tell you something. I haven't seen the boat yet , nor will I for a month or two.
The boat lies on the norwegian/swedish border , the boat was surveyed by a friend of mine and a boating friend of him.
It has costed me half of a month' paycheck. and the interior needs work.
I'll go down and look it over when the current engagement ends in noveber/december, and sail it here early spring. I'll use a month or so to get it here if I have to , so I will not be taking any risks. It'll take the time it takes.

I'll do the electrics and mechanics myself. I've done a bit of GRP work myself , but will get help from a buddy who has worked with GRP boat production and repairs for a decade.
I got the meranti I need for the interior , and another friend who actually is a cabinet-maker!!

I plan to salvage a old plywood sailboat wich is nearby , the owner wants to get rid of it.
It has the stanchions I need , some sails, a LOT of different wood and plywood, kitchen stuff , etc.
It will keep my cabinet-making friend happy for a long time

Buying the boat I need at first.. Yeah , at ten times the price, and still be upgrading it for offshore cruising. Aint gonna happen , while paying a house loan at record time in these scary times.
No , I'll buy the cheapest hull wich will do, keep my eyes on the salvage market and the used market, and use the the next year and a half to figure out what i need , and what I can do whithout.

I am looking for a vacation home in the meds later on, to use and to rent out, so we will not be staying in the boat for a full year. But for the first two-three months after arriving, and some round trips later on, the boat will be our home.

I do plan to fly home to Norway in the hottest summer months. Too hot in spain , and great money to be made at home.

I guess you get a feeling that there will be a bigger boat later , and you would be correct.
However , I'm not going to sell all i own to buy a bigger boat than I can handle, just to find out that this life was not my cup of tea. But I want to sail now , so first we go cheap , while we're still young (well, allmost) , and keep the house, and get a small cortijo in spain , or somewhere else where we enjoy the culture. If we decide that cruising is the life for us ,I'll sail home , live in the boat while working my ass off. With the rent for the houses and my salary , I should be able to buy a decent boat after less than a year. And by then I'll know what I want in my cruising home. If.....

For now , it's just an adventure , but it may become a lifestyle..

.manitu

Dulcesuenos · 26-10-2011, 18:45

People have sailed round the world in boats others would consider "small lake or very near coastal friendly"
The posters that say boats can handle more then people more often are correct.
But, from the pics, there are things I would be cautious of, as others have posted, no life lines, really low profile (super wet boat, I can just picture less then huge waves easily coming over the front and over the entire boat, freakishly long cockpit, as long as the cabin appears, looks smaller then a 30' boat for this reason. narrow, and unsure of ballast amount:?

All that aside I am sure she can sail anywhere you can and beyond, but be safe, especialy the idea of no life lines would scare me, having to go forward in any kind of storm or seaway could turn deadly very fast.
I like your atitude of go cheap and small and see if the life fits you, we did the same, and realised we love the life, and have and are moving up again eventually, Good thinking...
For the price shes a steal, but free boats often end up costing 10x more then the owners intended to spend... only to sell or give them away in 2 years for something diff...
Best wishes, Fair winds

barnakiel · 27-10-2011, 05:20

Be careful with boats that cost you little as they may be worth just that.

Not a rule though. I know many small and inexpensive boats in that area. The Amigoes, Allegroes, Albins, Laurins, HRs, Fidras and the rest of the bunch. Many of them sailed far and quite many circumnavigated. Again, not a rule, as within the same make boats differ lots - especially when one was bought as a kit, which was a frequent option back then.

As one poster said above: depending on skill level, projects take from some time to eternity so one has to decide if they are into boat building or boat sailing. At times these go along very well but most often they do not.

All the best and bon voyage!

b.

manitu · 27-10-2011, 12:11

If I have to give her away , no big deal. But hopefully I'll keep and sail her.
If the boat is no good , I'll sell her or salvage her for the parts.

It is a really simple boat! I'll use some days on the galley , I want a bit bigger bench area and a oven.
The bathroom is the largest project , I think. I want a shower, so I need a watertight bathroom.
I would make a male mold , wich I disolve when the polyester is cured, but then I would not get it in or out of the boat.. Well , I'll figure it out.

I' not shure if I'll rebuild the cabin/cockpit area. I dont like the look of the stepped cabin roof , I think the cabin looks small , and the cockpit looks to big. So I was thinking about moving the rear wall of the cabin a bit to stern. Should not be to big a job. Nothing is decided yet anyway.

I have skilled help , and I'm no stranger to wood or plastics myself. I'll do all mechanical/ electrical work myself, no problem.
I know that many people have bought cheap projects wich they never finished , but I know I got the skill ,tools and materials to get this boat on the water. the biggest investent will be new sails , and a self furling genoa. abot twice what the boat costs!!

The Low profile is a problem , would love to get as big a boat with a higher profile but this was the biggest boat I could get, and it was one third of my budget! (excluding sails).
Stanchions and lifelines will be mounted.
So I still plan to use up to 5000$ to get her ship shape , but I don't think it will be that much.

.manitu

cantxsailor · 27-10-2011, 13:24

As the owner of a Pacific Seacraft 25 I can't understand what most of the other posters are on about. My little boat has been all over the place, all before I owned her. She will again one day. I know my boat will put up with much more than I can and being small she tends to move with the water instead of trying to pound her way through. She survived being tossed up on shore during a hurricane and puts up happily with my hamfisted attempts to sail her.

She isn't as spacious as the goldplaters owned by some of the posters here and isn't as fancy to the eye but, as with your boat, I own her outright.

You have a very pretty boat and I think you can, if you use common sense and all the regular safety methods that go along with common sense, you will have a wonderful trip. Stay safe, enjoy your trip........m

SaltyMonkey · 27-10-2011, 15:30

I would say comparing a PSC 21, 24, 25, 27, or 31 to a Finessa 33 is like comparing apples to olives.

But having a Finessa 33, instead of worrying and pontificating long threads and thither or thither about what you will do to improve her etc blabla, you should just go sailing and see where she can go and what is around the corner.

capttman · 27-10-2011, 15:37

Many boats are capable of blue water people are not.. With the lack of free board pick your weather windows cautiously

MarkSF · 27-10-2011, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by capttman

Many boats are capable of blue water people are not.. With the lack of free board pick your weather windows cautiously

Frank Dye sailed from Scotland to Iceland and Norway in a 16ft centreboard dinghy, a Wayfarer, with a crew member. Navigation by dead reckoning, sleeping on the floor under a tarp.

Just saying.

He did nearly die 4 times though.