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Old 27-12-2013, 19:06   #136
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Re: Fake Boats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
An amusing fairy tale and should be treated so as the vast majority of this tale is falsehood, lies and mis truths. For example STIX plays no part in the RCD.

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It is first time for everything.
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Old 27-12-2013, 19:14   #137
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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post

Yeah...
and demand for Category A to have STIX numer equal or greater than 32, or for Category B to have STIX numer equal or greater than 23 plays a violin part of course?
ISO 122177 is a preferred method of assessing the stability requirement of the RCD,it is not the ONLY method. Any method which a convinces the notified body and clearly demonstrates compliance with the basic stability criterion set out in the RCD. Is acceptable. STIX is not included in the RCD , it's part of the ISO spec.

RCD categories , and ISO 122177 are actually an improvement on what went before. Before 1998, boats could be built to any crap standard and all sorts of claims made as to their " sea worthiness " now today , under RCD , boats must meet minimums stability requirements , must compute AVS and GMZ eric.

The RCD is quite clearly and unambiguously a minimum standard, even though , by using the ISO standards as a guide, it's sets a quite high " minimum standard " . Significantly higher then many entry level US boats built to non mandatory ABYC guidelines.

You are ranting about something generally regarded as having seriously raised the standard of European ( and worldwide) boat manufacture.

Dave
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Old 27-12-2013, 19:15   #138
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Re: Fake Boats?

Seriously people simmer down. I appreciate a fight as much as the next guy.....trust me im a type A and I hate being wrong.

My whole question was looking for a fatal flaw that I was unaware of in production boats. Apparently there isn't one across the board. Each brand has their pros and cons that you have to work around. Custom boats are great but to be honest the way things are looking I'll take a brand new catalina over a 30 year old whatever that needs tons of work......but thats just me. I have a 30 year old whatever that needs tons of work and id rather go new at this point. Some people wouldnt.

Doesn't make me right wrong or indifferent it just makes my opinion my opinion. I do thank everyone for contributing. It has given me a lot of insight.to ponder over
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Old 27-12-2013, 19:18   #139
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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post

Post reported.
First time on this board.
It is first time for everything.
Your fairytale is exactly what I said it was , a misunderstanding of the origins of the RCD , a misunderstanding of the relationship between the RCD and ISO standards. A misunderstanding of the effects of cost of manufacture had on small Eiropean yards, a misunderstanding of how mass yachting developed in the 80 s , and a miss understanding of how boats are designed and sold into the charter industry.


If you like a line by line deconstruction of your post I will do that too .

Dave
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Old 27-12-2013, 19:23   #140
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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
Seriously people simmer down. I appreciate a fight as much as the next guy.....trust me im a type A and I hate being wrong.

My whole question was looking for a fatal flaw that I was unaware of in production boats. Apparently there isn't one across the board. Each brand has their pros and cons that you have to work around. Custom boats are great but to be honest the way things are looking I'll take a brand new catalina over a 30 year old whatever that needs tons of work......but thats just me. I have a 30 year old whatever that needs tons of work and id rather go new at this point. Some people wouldnt.

Doesn't make me right wrong or indifferent it just makes my opinion my opinion. I do thank everyone for contributing. It has given me a lot of insight.to ponder over
I'm not in any way heated about this, just I hate utterly biased , factually miss understood nonsense . You stated the issues above yourself , in all areas of production , there are boats with particular issues , but to damm all production boats or to blame the RCD is to spout nonsense

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Old 27-12-2013, 19:24   #141
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Re: Fake Boats?

You have to start with design intent.
If it's fast with lots of room and can handle tons of stored stuff it's probably got excess beam. So what was given up to make this work? Somewhere the load gets too outboard. Or the bow gets to flat. If it's too heavy you get more rig to drive it? Too fine in the bow it's wet.
Catalina does a fine job of describing how they build their boats. I wanted find a fault. Found one and then looked harder and the question was answered?
I would want to know how the fixed ports are held in. Could not find the layup schedule. Not clear how the keel bolts tie to the grid. What is the sail package? What ounce triple stitched etc...? I have to say I am impressed with how well they built their website.
Hunter had little value in their sight or I couldn't find the information. No idea how they are built. Hunter has a galley that will make a memorable dinner. Increased light from the large fixed windows. It has a versatile lay out that allows for total extended offshore cruising. What ever that means.
Catalina has a strikingly handsome deck. From the web pages my bucks would be with Catalina.
At the 40 foot plus they both proclaim offshore capacity. I would grill them both on some finer points. Especially those big fixed ports. Hunter I would want a lot more information before buying one.
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Old 27-12-2013, 20:00   #142
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You have to start with design intent.
If it's fast with lots of room and ..........

.....out that ......
At the 40 foot plus they both proclaim offshore capacity. I would grill them both on some finer points. Especially those big fixed ports. Hunter I would want a lot more information before buying one.
There goes Oyster so.

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Old 27-12-2013, 20:35   #143
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Re: Fake Boats?

No, oyster must be good but they say nothing about build. The web page says" Even sleeker. Even more elegant.

The Oyster 475 is a very powerful yacht, almost certainly best in class for righting movement and form stability, with a hull and deck that are lighter, stronger and stiffer than her predecessors. Developed from the well-proven Oyster 46, the 475 comprises various updates to both the deck and interior.
Thank god they are best in class for form stability? Not sure what they men by righting and movement. But it sounds good.
Catalina has the best web page so far.
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Old 27-12-2013, 22:09   #144
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Re: Fake Boats?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There goes Oyster so.

Dave
Dave,

I know you came in late to the discussion and may have missed post #29 demonstrating the stability of an Oyster 46 during 55 knot winds and rough seas. So here's the video again.... just for you:

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Old 27-12-2013, 23:27   #145
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Looks like 8 knots with the wind on the starboard aft qtr. My Tupperware Tub requires the 2nd reef in the main and 60% on the jib but dances sweet in those conditions.
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Old 28-12-2013, 03:40   #146
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Re: Fake Boats?

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
Catalina does a fine job of describing how they build their boats. I wanted find a fault. Found one and then looked harder and the question was answered?
I would want to know how the fixed ports are held in. Could not find the layup schedule. Not clear how the keel bolts tie to the grid. What is the sail package? What ounce triple stitched etc...? I have to say I am impressed with how well they built their website.
To add to that I have contacted catalinas engineering department via email several times with questions about our current C30 and have always gotten a specific response with in 1 business day. There was even one time they didn't have the answer and Gerry Douglas the v.p. ended up responding. I couldn't be more impressed with their customer service.
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Old 28-12-2013, 05:42   #147
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Re: Fake Boats?

That looks like a great ride on the Oyster 46, but I didn't see a fish hold anywhere.
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Old 28-12-2013, 05:53   #148
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Re: Fake Boats?

Kenomac thx for the vid, awesome and the Oyster is doing a good job in such conditions, remind me a trip to Bermuda years ago in a Wauquiez Amphitrite in bad seas...
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Old 28-12-2013, 05:56   #149
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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post

Dave,

I know you came in late to the discussion and may have missed post #29 demonstrating the stability of an Oyster 46 during 55 knot winds and rough seas. So here's the video again.... just for you:

That's not an unusual occurance round here , 50 over the deck is common enough. A beneteau 393 would quite happily sail through that as well.

I looked at that video. Good sailor behind the wheel , boat nicely balanced. Most production cruisers of that size would be equally capable.

Oysters stability numbers are not class leading

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Old 28-12-2013, 08:31   #150
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Re: Fake Boats?

im new to this but i think im building a real blue water boat ill list its quilitys and yall tell me if im close. Its a hanna designed Carol ketch Gaff rigged all steel. The boat weights 15 tons and it has a full keel 8000 pounds of steel punch outs and tar fill up the keel . I have three 75 gallon water tanks that sit right on top of keel and bolted in .the chain locker and 200 gallon fuel are also below water level and centered . I have a 3cyl volvo penta for enguine this boat is a double ender and built like a ship shes 36ft long .Its a copy of the white seal that gary trobridge built and sailed around the world. Do yall think this boat is even close to a blue water boat.
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