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Old 20-12-2013, 09:56   #61
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
The way I read it, the goal was to get a boat that's easy to learn to sail, then live on it for a month with a woman. In that case I'd get a Hunter because they typically got a lot of room for the length.

If a full keel is needed the old Bristols are good. I saw somebody run one of those into the rocks once with the old Westerbeke running at full throttle and it didn't hurt it. But the same boat had a problem with the mast step. It has a deck stepped mast and no real compression post going to the keel. They kind of rely on the bulkhead between the v-berth and the corner to the head to support the deck. The deck had settled with age to where the door to the v-berth had a 1" gap on one side and it rubbed on the other.

We looked at a lot of different boats, including a Hallberg Rassy Rasmus and some in the 100-150K price range. All of them needed work for cruising and/or liveaboard. I don't look at the arrangement of the furniture when we went to look at boats. I poke around in the engine room, in the bilge, beat on the hull and deck with my fist to sound out problem areas - I made the yacht broker nervous as hell when I started inspecting a prospective boat. He wanted to show us furniture and while he was telling my wife how great this boat is I was half buried in the bilge then crawl out and tell him those sea cocks in there are junk and the bilge smells like diesel fuel - where's the leak?

The point is, no matter what older boat you buy that's 20-30+ years old, it's going to have some problems that need to be fixed. Usually the fixing part ends up being more labor (and moderate skill level in fiberglass boat repairs) than materials. In all the boats we looked at, I didn't see a lot of difference in structural build quality between any of them. Only fit and finish and attention to detail in the higher end boats.
Funny, I have a slightly different approach. Like you said, all boats need work to be good cruisers/live aboards. I look at the furniture because you generally can't fix or change that very much. I can't buy an old Bristol and give it the walk around centerline queen birth that is on my Catalina. At least not very easily. So these are the second thing I look at (the first is always the hull condition).

I can however change out seacocks, hoses, fuel tanks, etc. So I look at these last because they are just an indicator of what work I will have to put in and therefore what price I should pay for the boat.

Just different perspective I guess.
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Old 20-12-2013, 11:05   #62
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
The way I read it, the goal was to get a boat that's easy to learn to sail, then live on it for a month with a woman. In that case I'd get a Hunter because they typically got a lot of room for the length.

If a full keel is needed the old Bristols are good. I saw somebody run one of those into the rocks once with the old Westerbeke running at full throttle and it didn't hurt it. But the same boat had a problem with the mast step. It has a deck stepped mast and no real compression post going to the keel. They kind of rely on the bulkhead between the v-berth and the corner to the head to support the deck. The deck had settled with age to where the door to the v-berth had a 1" gap on one side and it rubbed on the other.

We looked at a lot of different boats, including a Hallberg Rassy Rasmus and some in the 100-150K price range. All of them needed work for cruising and/or liveaboard. I don't look at the arrangement of the furniture when we went to look at boats. I poke around in the engine room, in the bilge, beat on the hull and deck with my fist to sound out problem areas - I made the yacht broker nervous as hell when I started inspecting a prospective boat. He wanted to show us furniture and while he was telling my wife how great this boat is I was half buried in the bilge then crawl out and tell him those sea cocks in there are junk and the bilge smells like diesel fuel - where's the leak?

The point is, no matter what older boat you buy that's 20-30+ years old, it's going to have some problems that need to be fixed. Usually the fixing part ends up being more labor (and moderate skill level in fiberglass boat repairs) than materials. In all the boats we looked at, I didn't see a lot of difference in structural build quality between any of them. Only fit and finish and attention to detail in the higher end boats.
Yep, I know what you mean. After looking at 1000's of boats, I'm now looking at a beautiful 1981 Sabre 34 MKI only problem is that it's the original engine so I'm guessing the total cost will include that which could be what $10,000 or more in the very near future if I did decide to buy this boat. It's not a Catalina or Hunter, but I reckon you can't have everything for that price.

1981 Sabre 34 Mk I Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And btw, this h20 guy doesn't seem to have the experience you do so a "cheap" starter boat may be the best thing. But then what is cheap? My Bristol cost me $2,000 but I have maybe $8,000 in it now with the new sails and new outboard which I installed after trying a 2nd diesel. (and) I haven't even started repainting it yet except I did do the bottom when I bought it in 2011
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Old 20-12-2013, 11:17   #63
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
Funny, I have a slightly different approach. Like you said, all boats need work to be good cruisers/live aboards. I look at the furniture because you generally can't fix or change that very much. I can't buy an old Bristol and give it the walk around centerline queen birth that is on my Catalina. At least not very easily. So these are the second thing I look at (the first is always the hull condition).

I can however change out seacocks, hoses, fuel tanks, etc. So I look at these last because they are just an indicator of what work I will have to put in and therefore what price I should pay for the boat.

Just different perspective I guess.
Yep, that centerline queen berth should workout nicely if you are sailing from marina to marina with the wife. Not sure how good it will work if you are on a long cruise though with the boat heeled a bit while you try and sleep.

I guess you could strap yourself in with some extra line you have onboard.

All depends on what you want the boat for. Will it be used as a seaside condo or for sailing.
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Old 20-12-2013, 11:21   #64
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by JK n Smitty View Post
I can however change out seacocks, hoses, fuel tanks, etc. So I look at these last because they are just an indicator of what work I will have to put in and therefore what price I should pay for the boat.
Yes, I would say it's a different perspective. I let my wife decide on the furniture. I decide on the mechanical condition, what repairs the boat needs, and how the design of the systems was laid out for long term maintenance.

Frankly, the higher end (by most accounts) boats we looked at were the ones that would be a nightmare to refit and maintain because they do stupid things with wiring and plumbing and tankage in the boat that makes everything hard to work on, and hide it all behind pretty furniture.

I have read a lot of similar threads when researching the forum and lots of people have this dream. But the threads end and I don't know how many were able to turn the dream into reality. I don't think very many because they get stuck in the dreamer stage looking for that "perfect" turn-key cruising boat that doesn't exist for less than $100K. That's the conclusion I came to after reading quite a few similar threads here.

Maybe I have worked in the construction business too many years but I am in the git 'er done group. I read threads that go on and on about the ideal boat for people that want to sail the keys and bahamas, and from my standpoint I wouldn't afraid to pick my weather window and sail a 17 foot dinghy to dry tortuga. That is what I don't understand. Why do people go to these great lengths poring over the ideal blue water boat for island hopping, and then never do it?
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Old 20-12-2013, 11:36   #65
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

h20, Don't know what your budget is but the newer Glenn Henderson designed Hunters are very nice. The build quality is much improved and the sail plan, big roach main and smaller jib, is easily handled by a short handed crew. We especially liked the 39 which I don't believed is currently in production. The boat is very fast and nimble with ample interior space and a very spacious rear berth. I think your sailing partner would be very happy cruising one of these.
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:11   #66
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Yep, I know what you mean. After looking at 1000's of boats, I'm now looking at a beautiful 1981 Sabre 34 MKI
And btw, this h20 guy doesn't seem to have the experience you do so a "cheap" starter boat may be the best thing. But then what is cheap? My Bristol cost me $2,000 but I have maybe $8,000 in it now with the new sails and new outboard which I installed after trying a 2nd diesel
Oh wow - that Sabre 34 looks like a nice boat! Those old Westerbeke's can be rebuilt for way less than $10,000. They're a pretty solid engine with cross-drilled crank and everything. A lot of people replace those run-out Westerbeke's with a new Yanmar. But I wouldn't.

You can never go wrong with a Bristol from what I have seen. They are good boats and pretty easy to work on. We seriously looked over a Bristol 32 but for some reason the v-berth did not have as much room in it as our Hunter 22 had. I think they placed the bulkhead further towards the bow in those to make room for the head on the port side.

We also looked at a Bristol 35 shoal draft with a centerboard. The Bristol 35 has a keel stepped mast and my wife did not like the aluminum pole going thru the center of the cabin.

Both those Bristols passed my inspection with ease. They only got voted down by my wife. In my opinion a Bristol would make an excellent starter boat as well as an excellent cruising boat.
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:29   #67
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

I find it "interesting" that a thread with the title Hunter or Catalina gets people who just what to post something negative about them
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:36   #68
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pirate Re: Catalina or Hunter

Yup... hang onto that Westerbeke.. friend of mine bought a 1972 Waquiez with the original engine.. but boat had been ashore a while and it was seized solid..
We got it back here from Seville with an O/B on the back... local Portuguese guy stripped and rebuilt it and it now runs sweet as a nut..
Back then they made engines to last..
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:38   #69
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

I have been on both, I personally liveaboard, thus I own a hunter.

If your sailboat is too slow, I suggest buying a powerboat. They go pretty fast.

My hunter is only a 30, and she is roomier than most 33-35'ers. So if you will be on her for extended periods of time, I'd prefer to be comfy, than to go one to two knots faster and sacrifice a nice bed to lay in, or have no place to put my scuba gear.

My Hunter is a Cherubini, and I love her dearly.
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:45   #70
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Yup... hang onto that Westerbeke..
I'll second that on the Westerbeke. I've had both the Westerbeke's (4 cylinder) and Yanmars apart. The Westerbeke has a heavier bottom end with wider main bearings, a deep skirted block, beefier rods and forged pistons. They were built to go the distance. The weak point is their heads and valve seats. If you have one that's hard to start and is acting weak with a light cylinder when you crank it, chances are it just needs to be topped. I don't see how you could wear out the bottom end in less than 20,000 hours.
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Old 20-12-2013, 14:56   #71
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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Originally Posted by CruisingCouple View Post
Yes, I would say it's a different perspective. I let my wife decide on the furniture. I decide on the mechanical condition, what repairs the boat needs, and how the design of the systems was laid out for long term maintenance.

Frankly, the higher end (by most accounts) boats we looked at were the ones that would be a nightmare to refit and maintain because they do stupid things with wiring and plumbing and tankage in the boat that makes everything hard to work on, and hide it all behind pretty furniture.

I have read a lot of similar threads when researching the forum and lots of people have this dream. But the threads end and I don't know how many were able to turn the dream into reality. I don't think very many because they get stuck in the dreamer stage looking for that "perfect" turn-key cruising boat that doesn't exist for less than $100K. That's the conclusion I came to after reading quite a few similar threads here.

Maybe I have worked in the construction business too many years but I am in the git 'er done group. I read threads that go on and on about the ideal boat for people that want to sail the keys and bahamas, and from my standpoint I wouldn't afraid to pick my weather window and sail a 17 foot dinghy to dry tortuga. That is what I don't understand. Why do people go to these great lengths poring over the ideal blue water boat for island hopping, and then never do it?
Haha. Great post! I totally agree!

We are 18 months away from leaving and we are under 40. We don't have a lot of money nor a "blue water" boat. I don't see the need if we are going to just hop through the Bahamas and the Caribbean. Most of the stuff in the house is gone and it goes on the market in January.

By the way, the biggest reason I look at the furniture first is to keep the wife happy. In my opinion this is one of the most important things to consider when you want to go sailing. In my ideal world we would go for a circumnavigation. That would mean a different boat that is far less comfortable. My wife wouldn't go for it from a comfort perspective and at this point she has not interest in crossing oceans. Maybe later that will change and that would mean a different boat. (by the way some, most would think I am completely crazy if they knew what I wanted to use if that day ever happened)

Fair winds,

Jesse
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:59   #72
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

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I find it "interesting" that a thread with the title Hunter or Catalina gets people who just what to post something negative about them
It's hard to have fun in a place like this, but I do my best.

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Btw, thanks for the info on the Westerbeke. I'm still wondering why that Sabre hasn't sold but maybe it's because it's has only a little over 10' of beam.

The ad says the engine has 2500 hours on it. The boat has obviously been taken care of so maybe that engine will go a bit longer.
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Old 20-12-2013, 16:00   #73
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

Both are good boats,pick one you like best.
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Old 20-12-2013, 16:29   #74
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Re: Catalina or Hunter

That's pretty cool Jesse.

We're not made of money either. But over 10 years of sailing it became something we both want to do. And we looked at the things other people do - drop $40G on a bass boat, $15G on snowmobiles, $20G on four wheelers, and so on. Well, we're going to spend our money on cruising in the Caribbean (and maybe beyond) instead. And you know what's really nuts? The people who drop money on the toys I mentioned think we're nuts because going cruising is only for the rich and famous and who can afford a million dollar yacht? We just smile because we already got our boat and we didn't tell them how much we paid for it

"happy are those who dream dreams and are ready to pay the price to make them come true"

I sure hope the other dreamers that I've read about on the forum don't get stuck in the dreaming stage. I'd like to read about some of the dreamers that got their boat and did it.
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Old 20-12-2013, 16:55   #75
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pirate Re: Catalina or Hunter

2500 hrs... man its barely run in...lol
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