Are the offshore requirements for a boat set in stone?

[Snowpetrel]

I registered my 26 foot boat as an Brittish Vessel to escape the nanny state of NZ. I would have had to add more stanchions, dispite mine being much higher than needed and tied into substantial knees inside the boat the spacing was a few inches over the maximums in the rulebook so the inspector I talked to reccomended I shifted them to non- reinforced parts of the vessel to comply with some stupid offshore racing rule. At that point I decided enough was enough.

Nice to know German registration is an option if I get trapped back there again.

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[ccannan]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

the legislated "anchor light" that is (for vessels less than 12 metres LOA) required to be visible through 360º for a distance of 2 miles according to the "COLREGS". In the mid 19th century when this regulation originated, it was perfectly reasonable and conduced to safety. Today in a crowded anchorage set against a background of "up-scale" residential developments, it won't do you a blind bit of good.

The human (and animals in general) eye is more sensitive to motion than to non-movement. While I find it more difficult to locate anchor lights when backlit by city lights, the motion is always the giveaway.

Contrast that experience with coming into a secluded harbor late, on a moonless night, and learning that many anchored vessels aren't displaying their anchor lights. That is not fun, and not cool.

[grantmc]

A follow up to ponder. Many people criticise New Zealand’s enforcement regime for departing yachts. It seems draconian and over the top for sure. And I’d be the first to agree that some people’s experience’s with Inspectors verge on the very stupid.

But a little fact to keep in mind. NZ Customs don’t even bother to process yacht departures until several days have elapsed. That is because over 20% yachts find that conditions at sea are so difficult they turn around and return to NZ. And so when they do return with tail between their legs then no need to clear Customs (it’s as if they never left with respect to Customs formalities).

The reasons for the return are numerous, from heaving seas to broken gear, seas sickness etc. But the returns are done by people who’ve well found vessels,(with a Cat 1 certificate to prove same).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

In NZ, they can make up new rules for each person based on the appearance of your vessel.

Or on the attitude of the sailor?

[shazaamD]

Originally Posted by grantmc

In respect to New Zealand, a NZ registered recreational vessel must meet Cat 1 requirements when clearing Customs. To meet the requirements an approved inspector must have checked the vessel within a few days of departure. And the certificate of compliance is attached to the boat’s papers (effectively the boat’s passport). Customs issue a port of departure certificate, and this must be shown to the Customs Officer at your next port. Not having a departure certificate will get you in a heap of trouble with every Customs Dept worldwide.

The rules for the various Categories are set by Yachting New Zealand, and YNZ base the rules on World Sailing’s rules (previously called International Sailing Federation). Years ago Maritime NZ gave the job of rule setting and inspection to Yachting NZ. And so we are stuck with a bunch of rules related to offshore sail boat racing NOT leisurely cruising.

The rules for Cat 1 don’t just apply to the boat, they also lay down the minimum requirements and qualifications and experience for the skipper and crew. The Cat 1 classification reverts to Cat 2 immediately the boat visits an offshore port.

Also if you prefer cooler climate and want to head south then the vessel must meet Cat 0 requirements. Considerably more expensive and challenging than Cat 1.

I guess too you need to keep in mind that no matter what country your destination, any trip from New Zealand will be at least 1,200 nm across an angry open ocean, from quite a southern start. And those oceans can be rough, there’s nowhere to hide and many people have lost their lives trying. And whilst many yachties expound their resilience and self reliance, most are only too willing to activate an EPIRB and expect others to risk their lives to turn up and save them.

And I would certainly agree that some of the rules are over the top and some of the inspectors quite anal in their approach to enforcement. Hence a significant proportion of NZ citizens are registering their vessels offshore to avoid the Cat 1 requirements. There is no requirement for such a check on a foreign registered vessel even if skippered and crewed b y NZ nationals. Yep makes a mockery.

You also asked about other vessels such as Kayaks. And yes in the Cat regulations there are rules for them too. Although most leave from Oz where the departure rules are somewhat different.

Great/informative post Grantmc. Thanks

[knockabout]

the vessel must be seaworthy and safe / the person in charge of the vessel must be competent in all aspects of handling the said vessel including proper function and usage of safety equipment / able to handle medical emergencies / able to operate long distance communication equipment / need to be able to adapt to conditions, sea states and attitudes of other persons using the waterways, seas, oceans.
then there are natural predators, sharks, crocodiles, marine stingers, biting insects and public servants worried about job security that feel they need to serve endless infringement notices.
then we need to be of sound mind and physically capable of handling all the processes above plus our own personal hygiene and care then add nutrition and management of provisions. but what? AYF rules sorry we are only 6.2metres long we are not allowed to play with AYF members / we have to be 8.2metres waterline length // the safety regulations and standards are the minimum requirements and in most cases are a minimum guideline / you need to do your homework / learn from experienced people in your area that have experienced the conditions you are anticipating // prepare for the worst and hope for the best / good luck and enjoy your sailing

[StuM]

Originally Posted by knockabout

AYF rules sorry we are only 6.2metres long we are not allowed to play with AYF members / we have to be 8.2metres waterline length // the safety regulations and standards are the minimum requirements and in most cases are a minimum guideline / you need to do your homework / learn from experienced people in your area that have experienced the conditions you are anticipating // prepare for the worst and hope for the best / good luck and enjoy your sailing

AYF is no more. It's Yachting Australia now

[Scotty Kiwi]

I generally found the NZ Cat 1 inspectors to be experienced and reasonably flexible on some details. Sometimes though there was a bit of a settling in or relationship building period.

An example was having just had the rigger replace the top lifeline with new, bright plastic coated stainless, the reg. changed to disallow anything other than bare stainless. The reason was apparently that in the Sydney to Hobart (was in '97?) lives were lost due to lifelines breaking due to corrosion inside plastic going unnoticed during inspection. The surveyor would not negotiate, the rigger would not redo the work, saying the product supplied was in line with my order "Replace the top lifeline" ... so he replaced it with the same plastic coated material. I did feel I was being set up, but it would have been a fight I could not win.

A different surveyor did issue the certificate, for the reason the replacement lifelines were new, but he did put some kind of "rider" on (I think). I think that regulation may have since been relaxed.

But overall I've been happy with these requirements since they came in. It's a long long way from NZ to anywhere, and in the "variables" there's almost always bad weather, and not much assistance.

I always thought foreign registered yachts also needed safety certificate to leave ... but this thread seems to have it otherwise, as does the information on the NZ customs web site.

And I always thought Cat 1 was Cat 1, but the Island Cruising site (http://www.islandcruising.co.nz/wp-c...PCR-info-1.pdf) talks about "Cat 1 Cruising", this making a differentiation from "Racing". Hmmm.

Or maybe this phrase is an attempt to encourage an inspector (surveyor) to be flexibile, yet again?

[psk125]

Offshore requirements for yachts are not set in stone. They are set in water. Lots of water. Water 45 or more feet high sometimes, and other times miles deep. And at times not deep enough. Water that can be more than a thousand miles across, or not wide enough for you to clear the rock. Water that is moving, or still. Even requirements that might be set in stone will be worn down by water.