Amel Supermaramu vs Santorin

[alsail]

Thank all of you for your valuable advice. I do not consider this thread finished even if 90% I made my decision. I still didn't buy the boat so any input/opinion about SuperMaramu or Santorin would be much appreciated. I will see a Super Maramu in the next 2 days and I 'll let you know my impression( not that it matters too much, considering my experience is not that great). I read lots of threads for years and I think there are lots of people around here that have a lot of knowledge and their advice is much needed for someone whom doesn't know a lot about different brands of sailing boats. So please, the more opinions the better for me.

[Mango51]

The only visual difference is in the helm, galley, salon ,,and no pilot berth. No pilot berth on santorin but good storage instead. Galley is L shape instead of u shaped. The helm is more narrow. The saloon is L shape. Forward birth,I think the santorin hatch is to high to exit or enter through. They are both perfect. You'll be happy with either one.
Good luck with your choice.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by alsail

Thank all of you for your valuable advice. I do not consider this thread finished even if 90% I made my decision. I still didn't buy the boat so any input/opinion about SuperMaramu or Santorin would be much appreciated. I will see a Super Maramu in the next 2 days and I 'll let you know my impression( not that it matters too much, considering my experience is not that great). I read lots of threads for years and I think there are lots of people around here that have a lot of knowledge and their advice is much needed for someone whom doesn't know a lot about different brands of sailing boats. So please, the more opinions the better for me.

As owner of a Super Maramu I can tell you the maintenance is absolutely NOT going to be similar. The SM is a much more complex and systems intense boat than a Santorin. Maintenance is more important, and will be more expensive--double so if you don't do the work yourself.

On the other hand the Santorin's are older boats, and might be in need of refit.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, you get a huge number of creature comforts for that cost.

If you find a Super Maramu that is in the same price range as a Santorin, I'd be very suspicious of the boat's quality.

My advice: look for the broker who specializes in selling used Amels. You'll find a wealth of good information.

[alsail]

Originally Posted by Mango51

The only visual difference is in the helm, galley, salon ,,and no pilot berth. No pilot berth on santorin but good storage instead. Galley is L shape instead of u shaped. The helm is more narrow. The saloon is L shape. Forward birth,I think the santorin hatch is to high to exit or enter through. They are both perfect. You'll be happy with either one.
Good luck with your choice.

So the cockpit would be narrower by the difference between the widths of the 2 boats? How about maintainance, can you tell me anything about that please ?

[alsail]

Originally Posted by billknny

As owner of a Super Maramu I can tell you the maintenance is absolutely NOT going to be similar. The SM is a much more complex and systems intense boat than a Santorin. Maintenance is more important, and will be more expensive--double so if you don't do the work yourself.

On the other hand the Santorin's are older boats, and might be in need of refit.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, you get a huge number of creature comforts for that cost.

If you find a Super Maramu that is in the same price range as a Santorin, I'd be very suspicious of the boat's quality.

My advice: look for the broker who specializes in selling used Amels. You'll find a wealth of good information.

Oh, that is not what I wanted to hear , . Double the maintainance is a lot. For 4 people cruising maybe the Santorin would be a better option then....And I was set on that Super Maramu. I have to rethink. I thought the difference is just a bit as Super Maramu has a slightly bigger motor, sails, rigging...

[HankOnthewater]

With all due respect to a previous poster who owns a SM, I am not sure about the maintenance issues, if Super Marumu is really that much more complex:
The following would be identical:
* All electrical gear (although SM may have more batteries, not more complicated, just more)
* All navigation equipment
* All communication equipment
* Drive system
* Plumbing
* Lines and halyards, just a bit longer on SM

The following would be similar maintenance wise maybe slightly more expensive to maintain as Santorin is smaller, but these items are not more complicated. These items are for replacement every 10 or more years so financial impact on a yearly basis is minimal, hmm sounds like maintenance is not an issue…. I meant to say that replacing these big ticket items is a large expense every 10 years or so, but the difference between the expense for both boats is not that large, spread out over these 10 years or so.
* Rigging, sails, furlers (electrical)
* Winches
* Bow thruster
* Ground tackle (anchor, anchor winch, although the chain might be both 10 mm)
* Engine (ie ~50 HP Perkins/Volvo vs larger 100HP Yanmar)
* Larger ram for autopilot

The following would be more complicated on a SM, that is …IF…. Santorin has not got that equipment (and some of them have some of this equipment):
* Washing machine, dryer
* Air-conditioning
* Diesel heater
* Water-maker
* Electric winches
* Generator

The following would be more expensive to buy/have/maintain a SM:
* Higher purchase price (pain is once only)
* Higher cost in insurance (yearly)
* Slip/pen hire (as that goes by length), yearly
* Hauling out, again that goes by length, yearly of biennial
* Applying antifoul (maybe an extra 4-5 lt for SM??)
* Polishing and waxing of hull (maybe an extra day per year for SM??)

The name Bill Rouse has been mentioned. He and/or his wife maintained a meticulous record of costs of sailing an SM. Have a look at that here: S/V BeBe: Costs

As a generalisation: I think that the real difference in buying smaller vs bigger boats, is that owners with bigger boats put more (often complex) gear on their boat, because they can (financially and space wise), but bigger boats are not necessarily more complicated, just the size, therefore the loads and therefore the gear is heavier.

Here is some more info:
Amel Santorin 46 - Yachting Monthly review

Lastly, I do not own an SM or Santorin, but I sailed quite a few Amels, but never a Santorin. Another thought, I believe a few Santorins have been delivered as a sloop, just in case you would prefer that

[alsail]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

With all due respect to a previous poster who owns a SM, I am not sure about the maintenance issues, if Super Marumu is really that much more complex:
The following would be identical:
* All electrical gear (although SM may have more batteries, not more complicated, just more)
* All navigation equipment
* All communication equipment
* Drive system
* Plumbing
* Lines and halyards, just a bit longer on SM

The following would be similar maintenance wise maybe slightly more expensive to maintain as Santorin is smaller, but these items are not more complicated. These items are for replacement every 10 or more years so financial impact on a yearly basis is minimal, hmm sounds like maintenance is not an issue…. I meant to say that replacing these big ticket items is a large expense every 10 years or so, but the difference between the expense for both boats is not that large, spread out over these 10 years or so.
* Rigging, sails, furlers (electrical)
* Winches
* Bow thruster
* Ground tackle (anchor, anchor winch, although the chain might be both 10 mm)
* Engine (ie ~50 HP Perkins/Volvo vs larger 100HP Yanmar)
* Larger ram for autopilot

The following would be more complicated on a SM, that is …IF…. Santorin has not got that equipment (and some of them have some of this equipment):
* Washing machine, dryer
* Air-conditioning
* Diesel heater
* Water-maker
* Electric winches
* Generator

The following would be more expensive to buy/have/maintain a SM:
* Higher purchase price (pain is once only)
* Higher cost in insurance (yearly)
* Slip/pen hire (as that goes by length), yearly
* Hauling out, again that goes by length, yearly of biennial
* Applying antifoul (maybe an extra 4-5 lt for SM??)
* Polishing and waxing of hull (maybe an extra day per year for SM??)

The name Bill Rouse has been mentioned. He and/or his wife maintained a meticulous record of costs of sailing an SM. Have a look at that here: S/V BeBe: Costs

As a generalisation: I think that the real difference in buying smaller vs bigger boats, is that owners with bigger boats put more (often complex) gear on their boat, because they can (financially and space wise), but bigger boats are not necessarily more complicated, just the size, therefore the loads and therefore the gear is heavier.

Here is some more info:
Amel Santorin 46 - Yachting Monthly review

Lastly, I do not own an SM or Santorin, but I sailed quite a few Amels, but never a Santorin. Another thought, I believe a few Santorins have been delivered as a sloop, just in case you would prefer that

Thanks for that. Yes, that is what I thought too when I started to consider Sm over Santorin. From what you say, the bigger costs like AC, washing machine etc are not a problem as I do not want them anyway, so if they break I won't bother to fix something I think is not justified on a cruising sailing vessel. We do not have a dishwasher at home.... Insurance and haul out will be bigger( I will do my own antifouling anyway), slip won't matter too much as I will buy a mooring.
The pain when you are not an experienced boat owner is that you get confused even when you ask advice, as different people have different opinions. I think I just have to apply common sense to choose whose advice I will follow, hahaha, it is my only option. However, I do not like a boat with too many complicated systems but I do love the Amel boats, so I guess I can choose to "simplify " one by not fixing the AC, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher and other gadgets I won't use anyway.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Listen to BillKnny,

He is probably the best qualified AMEL specialist in NA and Europe.

The best surveyor is "hands down" Olivier Beauté. As former Director of After Sales Service at Amel, he knows all their ins and outs.

The SM will cost more in maintenance. Quite a bit more... but then its more boat.

Come on in! The water's fine! :-)

[Renx]

Sounds like we’re about about 6 months ahead of you.. we’re a family of 5 (3kids) bought our 1997 SM last September and now living aboard. Our SM was under market value and we were warned to stay clear by some.. but we went ahead with due diligence with the understanding there were maintenance issues ahead.. and there were. The Amel community however are very knowledgeable (some might say obsessed!) and there’s nothing you can’t find out about or tackle yourself if you know your screwdriver from your wrench. We’ve just cleaned out the water tanks and replaced the keel bonding strap in the bilge.. amongst the worse jobs to tackle(!) but we did it ourselves and saved a small fortune. Also be adding these maintenance videos to our YouTube channel shortly if it’ll help. Look forward to seeing you out here! https://www.youtube.com/c/mothershipadrift

[alsail]

I looked at a SM today. Beautiful sturdy and amazing boat but.....too big for what I need. There is no need to spend that money for a small family. I think I will hunt for a Santorin. It will fit my family, 2 adults and 2 kids just fine. Does anybody own a Santorin????? Ketch or sloop? Any idea what sort of cruising speed under motor??? I need a 6.5 knots cruising for my day charter business. Is it achievable?

[Polux]

They are very similar boats that had been designed at the same year the Santorini is a 11t 14m boat the Super Maramu a 16t 16m sailboat.

Both boats have some interesting characteristics, are well built but the hull design was already slightly outdated when they were first produced and clearly outdated when they were substituted by newer models (1997 and 1998) with a not very different hull design.





Compare for instance with the hull design of the Levrier de Mer 53, designed only 2 years later (1990):



And compare that one with the ones of the contemporary Amel 55, designed 20 years later.