Nanaimo Anchoring Fees !

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Nanaimo Junk????

Many of the boats anchored in Nanaimo which were kicked out, were immaculately maintained offshore boats, including one circumnavigator. They made no differentation between well manitained, offshore capable boats, and others, which were the only homes their residents could afford, without sending welfare cheques from their minimal incomes, to overpaid, fat bureuacrats, who are the real cause of money shortages in the economy.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

If you didn't have a boat, would you expect to live in Nanaimo for free? You can't get an apartment for free. You can't have a house for free. You can't pitch a tent for free, except in the wilderness. You can't even park your car for free beyond a short period. Your argument is not helped by your gratuitous use of the term "Nazi", nor is it helped by your exaggerations - the HST will be replacing the PST and GST, not added to them. And yeah I know there will be a net tax increase because of the change - after all there are only two things certain in life

You sound like someone on the receiving end of this extortion. So what would I be paying for , the harbour, which was made by the last ice age?
So who has the right to charge for something they had no hand in making? Your coments remind me of the Campbell River bus driver I was having a debate about over aboriginal land negotiations. He said " The Indians never owned the land, as they hadn't paid anyone for it." So who did Columbus pay for it? Block Brothers? Who did Block Brothers pay for it , before they sold it to Columbus? The guy was as dense as he was obese, which in itself was a reflection on his lack of intelligence. I find this usually to be true of anyone who has the attitude that there should be a price tag on everything, to exclude the not so rich, and thus make way for the rich.
If you feel that way, then isn't it high time you started paying for the air you breath. Pay who? I'd be happy to take your payments , cash cheque or money order would be fine . About $200 a month will do.
Think of how it will ease your conscience , knowing that you are not freeloading, and getting something for nothing.
What right have I to charge you for the air you breath? As much right as anyone else has to charge me for what they had no hand in making , which as been there since the last ice age. That is common fraud.

[Stillraining]

Brent...you should run for city council.

[Rex Delay]

Again, in defence of the Nanaimo Harbour Authority, all they are trying to achieve is the removal of unseaworthy junk. If you want to anchor there, just be on this side of sinking and show your lights as required by the COLREGS. Approaching Mark Bay at night is scary due to all the unmanned, unlit, derelict vessels abandoned there.

[Pelagic]

I know this seems a bit harsh on Christmas Eve Brent, but the reality is that human nature does not treat benignly, those who try to take advantage of the system.

If it is a proper Port that has a vested community of land dwellers who have developed the infrastructure to make that Port especially attractive then they have earned the right to protect it, based on their own set of values….not the drifters.

They develop a Port Authority to manage their Port and will not loose any sleep over removing derelict boats or making resident squatters contribute to the upkeep and security of port waters…and if they refuse…. force them to move along.

Like Columbus, you always have the choice to set sail for new undeveloped lands whenever the locals in power set conditions that offend your personal values.

I think it is realistic to recognize, regardless of the history, it is now their turf, their long term commitment and now their right based on sweat equity to make up the rules.

Just think of this analogy….. If a community built a beautiful new sports arena and some squatters decided to live there between games…. do you think that would be easily accepted by the rest of the community as fair?

Thinking you have earned community rights based on your mere existence is at best naive and at worst a precarious position way out on a social limb.

You can not have it both ways …..

Now I am just waiting for the “ Ghost of Christmas Past!”

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

I'm curious of how I manage to avoid paying the taxes of the buisnesses I buy from, who receive over $4 million per year from cruisers pasing thru, or how I'm able to avoid paying sales taxes like GST, PST and HST, fuel taxes etc. Tell me how I'm doing it, so I can try it , given that you know more about my finances than I do.

You sound like someone on the receiving end of this extortion. So what would I be paying for , the harbour, which was made by the last ice age?

Don't be obtuse, Brent. Only a small portion of GST, PST (or HST when it supplants them) and fuel taxes that you pay will trickle back down to the local economy. An equally small amount is realized from your purchases. The bulk of the local budget is covered by property taxes - I inferred from what you've written that you do not pay property taxes. Whether you admit it or not, you benefit from having police, firefighters, hospitals, libraries, community centres, public transportation, streetlamps etc etc etc. Not everyone in a community has kids, but they get to pay for schools - in the end this is of benefit to them, as it contributes to the community as a whole. If someone is just passing through, then the little bit they contribute through sales taxes more than covers their use of the community's resources; but if you're staying for longer periods, then it's only fair to assume you will be making greater use of those community resources and you should contribute. Even within the harbour itself, you benefit from there being designated anchorage areas, speed limits, buoyage, vessel traffic services, trash pickup, showers, docks etc. If you don't feel that you use any of the community benefits, then why do you stay in Nanaimo?; there are millions of uninhabited naturals harbours in BC, for you to gunkhole in. You're not paying for the geography, but what lies around it, and they were there first, so suck it up or move on.

Real cruisers usually have to stop a while sometimes, and top up the cruising kitty.

Sometimes they have to keep their boats in a marina; sometimes they have to move ashore - should they get that for free, just because they call themselves "cruisers"?

I haven't heard of any of them protesting the attacks on their floating customers, or writing letters to the editors on the issue...
I have contacted the MP and her boss, a federal opposition leader, whom I have discussed things with in the past. Waiting for the reply.

So it seems that no one else shares your concerns. Can't believe you'd have a hard time finding more whiny squatters with inflated senses of entitlement out in the Socialist Republic of BC? Anyway, Pelagic's points are apropos and far more eloquent than I could manage.

I'll add that if what you've written was meant to be a not-so-subtle insult, then it does little to advance your argument or the weight of your opinions in general. In the spirit of the season, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and trust the aspersions were not deliberate. May the New Year bring you your Nirvana, where the streets are paved with gold and everything is free for the taking. Don't forget to send us a postcard.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Rex Delay

Again, in defence of the Nanaimo Harbour Authority, all they are trying to achieve is the removal of unseaworthy junk. If you want to anchor there, just be on this side of sinking and show your lights as required by the COLREGS. Approaching Mark Bay at night is scary due to all the unmanned, unlit, derelict vessels abandoned there.

Many of the boats they have forced out were anything but unseaworthy junk, but were very offshore capable and offshore proven. So much for that argument.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Don't be obtuse, Brent...

Indeed.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Don't be obtuse, Brent. Only a small portion of GST, PST (or HST when it supplants them) and fuel taxes that you pay will trickle back down to the local economy. An equally small amount is realized from your purchases. The bulk of the local budget is covered by property taxes - I inferred from what you've written that you do not pay property taxes. Whether you admit it or not, you benefit from having police, firefighters, hospitals, libraries, community centres, public transportation, streetlamps etc etc etc. Not everyone in a community has kids, but they get to pay for schools - in the end this is of benefit to them, as it contributes to the community as a whole. If someone is just passing through, then the little bit they contribute through sales taxes more than covers their use of the community's resources; but if you're staying for longer periods, then it's only fair to assume you will be making greater use of those community resources and you should contribute. Even within the harbour itself, you benefit from there being designated anchorage areas, speed limits, buoyage, vessel traffic services, trash pickup, showers, docks etc. If you don't feel that you use any of the community benefits, then why do you stay in Nanaimo?; there are millions of uninhabited naturals harbours in BC, for you to gunkhole in. You're not paying for the geography, but what lies around it, and they were there first, so suck it up or move on.

Sometimes they have to keep their boats in a marina; sometimes they have to move ashore - should they get that for free, just because they call themselves "cruisers"?

So it seems that no one else shares your concerns. Can't believe you'd have a hard time finding more whiny squatters with inflated senses of entitlement out in the Socialist Republic of BC? Anyway, Pelagic's points are apropos and far more eloquent than I could manage.

I'll add that if what you've written was meant to be a not-so-subtle insult, then it does little to advance your argument or the weight of your opinions in general. In the spirit of the season, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and trust the aspersions were not deliberate. May the New Year bring you your Nirvana, where the streets are paved with gold and everything is free for the taking. Don't forget to send us a postcard.

Marina owners spend a lot of money and labour ( thanks to harbour paper nazis) providing services for which they should be duly compensated. Does that mean anyone should be obliged to buy what they sell, whether we want it or not? I have also put in a lot of work writing my book, so does that mean the law should compel everyone to buy my book,whether they want to or not?
If I won the lottery tomorrow I still wouldn't pay a marina operator to hand me a list of things I may or may not do on my own boat, or tel me how to live my life. I know a millionaire who refuses to give them that kind if control over him. He stays anchored out . Money is not the issue with him.You have been well programmed to not only accept that kind of control , but to seek it out. Some of us have held on to our freedom, having challenged the brainwashing, rather than simply accepting it passively..
When one is offered a months work , how would the employer respond to being told that he will have to wait three years until I make my way to the bottom of a three year waiting list in most marinas? How will he respond when I tell him that I can't afford to do the work because marinas wont let me live aboard, and I can 't find a landlord which will let me rent a room for three weeks, then leave, and what he is paying me won't pay for a $100 night hotel fee? Is a three year waiting list so economically hard on marina owners that they need to make their waiting lists even longer to stay in business? If that is the case they have no business being in business. Section 6 of the charter of right s guarantees the right to travel freely and persue a livlihood anywhere in Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 1996 that charging a fee for the exercise of a charter right is an unreasonable burden on the exercise of that right and thus is a violation of the charter.
How would you respond to being told by the government that you are required by law to buy a new GM vehicle because GM needs the business?
Compared to anchored boats , marinas have a huge environmental impact.
The primary sewage treatment that Nanaimo uses is a 1/4 inch screen, that's all. So if boats pump their sewage thru a 1/4 inch screen, does that make it the same as Nanaimo's total out put? Or do you still believe that a city of 100,000, pumping it' sewage thru a 1/4 inch screen results in less **** in the water than a half dozen cruisers in winter?
I'm aboriginal. Unless you are also aboriginal , you are the squatter.
Does buying a house in the middle of a street give you the right to put up a road block at both ends of the street? Putting up a roadblock across the harbour is even more arrogant? There is a point where private property ends and public begins.
However, a Nanaimo Port Authority employee, masquerading as a cruiser, doesn't surprise me at all. Bureaucrats can be very innovative when it comes to defending their welfare cheques, and their personal empire building efforts. That takes priority over defending civil rights that their own children and future generations will have to live without, as a result of their myopia.

[Rex Delay]

This has been a very interesting discussion but the bottom line remains the same. Anchor out, be free and enjoy life. Just one thing, respect the COLREGS, show your lights and do not be a threat to the environment.

[Lodesman]

Brent,

I truly have no idea what you are on about. Or what you are on. These latest ramblings seem to be so far removed from the original topic, that it is now impossible to even guess what your point is. I will point out that it is called the "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" not the "Charter of Rights and Freebies". Nowhere in the charter does it entitle you to live anywhere you want for free. And it is the height of hypocrisy to hoist the Canadian charter up as your shield, then in the very next breath proclaim yourself to be a Native, and all Canadians are squatters. For chri'sakes man, pick a side! You can't have your cake and eat it too!
What any of this has to do with how they crap in Nanaimo, is anybody's guess???
It seems to me you are trolling, and when one finds oneself riding a dead horse, the best policy is to dismount. So this is my last post in this thread. Good luck with your crusade.

[michaelmrc]

Originally Posted by Rex Delay

This has been a very interesting discussion but the bottom line remains the same. Anchor out, be free and enjoy life. Just one thing, respect the COLREGS, show your lights and do not be a threat to the environment.

Very well said Rex

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Don't be obtuse, Brent. Only a small portion of GST, PST (or HST when it supplants them) and fuel taxes that you pay will trickle back down to the local economy. An equally small amount is realized from your purchases. The bulk of the local budget is covered by property taxes - I inferred from what you've written that you do not pay property taxes. Whether you admit it or not, you benefit from having police, firefighters, hospitals, libraries, community centres, public transportation, streetlamps etc etc etc. Not everyone in a community has kids, but they get to pay for schools - in the end this is of benefit to them, as it contributes to the community as a whole. If someone is just passing through, then the little bit they contribute through sales taxes more than covers their use of the community's resources; but if you're staying for longer periods, then it's only fair to assume you will be making greater use of those community resources and you should contribute. Even within the harbour itself, you benefit from there being designated anchorage areas, speed limits, buoyage, vessel traffic services, trash pickup, showers, docks etc. If you don't feel that you use any of the community benefits, then why do you stay in Nanaimo?; there are millions of uninhabited naturals harbours in BC, for you to gunkhole in. You're not paying for the geography, but what lies around it, and they were there first, so suck it up or move on.

Sometimes they have to keep their boats in a marina; sometimes they have to move ashore - should they get that for free, just because they call themselves "cruisers"?

So it seems that no one else shares your concerns. Can't believe you'd have a hard time finding more whiny squatters with inflated senses of entitlement out in the Socialist Republic of BC? Anyway, Pelagic's points are apropos and far more eloquent than I could manage.

I'll add that if what you've written was meant to be a not-so-subtle insult, then it does little to advance your argument or the weight of your opinions in general. In the spirit of the season, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and trust the aspersions were not deliberate. May the New Year bring you your Nirvana, where the streets are paved with gold and everything is free for the taking. Don't forget to send us a postcard.

Nanaimo firefighters don't have a fire boat or vessel of any kind. The odds of them making it out to save a boat or even bothering are absolute zero. So charging boaters for firefighting services which there is zero chance of them ever benefiting from is common fraud.
Nanaimo is policed by RCMP, the mounties, Canada's national embarrassment and teflon Mafia, paid for largely by the federal government to whom we pay or GST and fuel taxes. If one is not a first class citizen, paying for land, then one is more likely to be tasered, beaten or executed by them than helped. Give that they have the right to lie openly in court and the right to fabricate any evidence they need to get a conviction ,and are thus encouraged to do so , having everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing so, they cant be expected to be the friends of the second class citizens, who don't make enough money to get above the basic personal tax exemption. The others are the Harbour patrol, who only harass boaters. Its a bit like a wife beater laying a moralistic guilt trip on his victim for not supporting him enough.
Most liveaboard boaters have woodstoves for heat and thus burn most of their garbage , producing enough to fill ones jeans pocket once or twice a week.
Taxpayers who drive cars in BC get a tax subsidy of over $2,000 per car . Most liveaboard boaters don't own cars, saving over $2,000 a year in tax expenditures. We are not asking the city to build and maintain sidewalks out to our boats, unlike landlubbers so why should we get the same bill as them. We don't expect help from firefighters so drop those expenses off our bill, plus GST, PST,we pay , plus HST, teflon mafia payouts, garbage , etc etc and you end up below zero.
The charter, in section 35 and others, protects aboriginal rights, which gives us the right and obligation to defend it. Nowhere in the charter does it say that these rights only apply to people who live cookie cutter urban lifestyles, and pay for real estate. Nanaimo has long been run by the real estate industry, since real estate scammer Frank Ney was mayor( can you say conflict if interest?)
I have been told lately that anchoring in Vancouver ( on who's rules Nanaimo tried to up the ante) has become a lot friendlier and less cruiser hostile lately. Friends who anchored there have told me they stayed long and had no hassles whatever. For many years the lack of available anchorage has kept north bound boaters away from Vancouver and using Nanaimo instead. Now that the tables have turned , perhaps it's time north or southbound boaters started to consider bypassing Nanaimo in favour of Vancouver. It definitely has far more amenities than Nanaimo could ever hope to offer. It will no doubt be a hassle during the Olympic scam, but after that nonsense is over it may be far less cruiser hostile than Nanaimo has become. It's a lot easier for northbound cruisers to head around to Howe Sound and Gibson's in a westerly than beat north from Nanaimo. From there, it's a short beat to Sechelt , a great stocking up place, then only 8 miles to Smugglers and Secret cove. By the way, fuel in Secret cove is far cheaper at Buccaneer marina ( 22 cents a litre cheaper in recent years ) than at Secret cove marina ,just inside the entrance.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by michaelmrc

Very well said Rex

Absolutely right . Its the "Be free and enjoy life"that they are trying to take away , by the politics of envy. If you feel envious, don't envy, emulate.
I get a lot of support in personal private emails, but it would be far better if that support were posted here, and those supporters would join in the debate.

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Brent,

I truly have no idea what you are on about. Or what you are on. These latest ramblings seem to be so far removed from the original topic, that it is now impossible to even guess what your point is. I will point out that it is called the "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" not the "Charter of Rights and Freebies". Nowhere in the charter does it entitle you to live anywhere you want for free. And it is the height of hypocrisy to hoist the Canadian charter up as your shield, then in the very next breath proclaim yourself to be a Native, and all Canadians are squatters. For chri'sakes man, pick a side! You can't have your cake and eat it too!
What any of this has to do with how they crap in Nanaimo, is anybody's guess???
It seems to me you are trolling, and when one finds oneself riding a dead horse, the best policy is to dismount. So this is my last post in this thread. Good luck with your crusade.

I apologise if I have been speaking too far over your head for you to comprehend.