Tipping the guys at the marina?

[rognvald]

One's philosophy about tipping indicates who you are as a person. There are generous people, cheap people and those in-between. There are considerate people, inconsiderate people and those in-between. I have spent uncountable years preparing my boats in working "dry dock" marinas before launch and have always given thanks(either monetarily or in strong spirits) to those who have gone above and beyond their job to help as a means of appreciation for their service. It has given me untold returns to my benefit that have always made my stay productive and pleasant and whenever a favor was needed, I rarely heard the word "no." This is not bribery, but an extra thanks for a job well done and an acknowledgement that they did something for you they didn't have to do. I don't agree with the "food tip" since in some cultures it would be considered an insult since it would be viewed as condescending charity. And, some, like myself, would never accept food from strangers for many reasons. This is why, generally speaking, "sailboaters" are seldom warmly welcomed at many marinas outside the US and why most powerboaters are. You don't have to be wealthy to be considerate and thoughtful of others in a service capacity and many of my cruising friends on limited budgets have used their thoughtfulness and generosity to their benefit. No one said cruising was cheap. One way to avoid the expense is to stay out of marinas. Finally, in response to comments made by my dear friend "Wrong" who has admonished us not to ruin it for him and his tightfisted allies by showing consideration and generosity to others, I would reply "don't ruin it for me and those who share my views when the bow of our boats point straight towards a marina and the word goes out "Oh, boy . . . here comes another sailboater!"

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Having a PITA bread sandwich, with falafel, tahini sauce and a veggie salad. Yum!

Mauritz
PITA is a mid-eastern pocket bread

Coconut ice cream with husks and broken glass for desert?

[Teknav]

Broken glass for deSert? Wrong, bud, you really need a vacation!

Mauritz
Told Captain Bligh: "No baksheesh, No breadfruit!"

[psneeld]

Hey you guys...there's a lively discussion in the $500/month cruising thread...just right up your alley!!!!!!

This would be my "culturally acceptable" tip....

[fishin4bogey]

Wrong, do you not know how to read??? Should I type slower for you??

My post very clearly said if there are others scheduled ahead of me, BUT AREN'T THERE YET ( that's the important part) they will throw my boat in the water beforehand. There are several reasons for this...one is if you schedule your launch for 0900, but don't show up till noon, your boat has been taking up valuable space for three hours. Other boats may be delayed because there is no room to launch.

Also the launch pad sits between two buildings where there is little if any breeze. In the hot south Florida sun it routinely clears 110 degrees at the pad by 10 am. When I return they help me get everything in order, so my boat goes back on the rack. They don't have to let me flush my outboard, but they do. I don't pay anyone to "get ahead" in life, I give tips because it is my way of saying Thank You. Most of the time a thank you is more than enough. Other times we throw someone a few bucks. In almost every job I've had I've gotten tips. Sometimes it a tall glass of cold water, and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Please make sure you feed your high horse....

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by fishin4bogey

Wrong, do you not know how to read??? Should I type slower for you??.

Yeah, I read slow to make sure I understand what is being said/claimed...

Originally Posted by fishin4bogey

My post very clearly said if there are others scheduled ahead of me, BUT AREN'T THERE YET ( that's the important part) they will throw my boat in the water beforehand. There are several reasons for this...one is if you schedule your launch for 0900, but don't show up till noon, your boat has been taking up valuable space for three hours. Other boats may be delayed because there is no room to launch.

Also the launch pad sits between two buildings where there is little if any breeze. In the hot south Florida sun it routinely clears 110 degrees at the pad by 10 am. When I return they help me get everything in order, so my boat goes back on the rack. They don't have to let me flush my outboard, but they do. I don't pay anyone to "get ahead" in life, I give tips because it is my way of saying Thank You. Most of the time a thank you is more than enough. Other times we throw someone a few bucks. In almost every job I've had I've gotten tips. Sometimes it a tall glass of cold water, and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Please make sure you feed your high horse....[/QUOTE]

Right. What you said. You did not say the people were late. Read what you said again. So, they are scheduled for 09:00 and you show at 08:30, slip the guy a $20 bill to get launched ahead of the folks scheduled at 0:900. So what if your boat is still in the sling at 09:00 when the other people show. They are delayed while you get the benefit of having greased the lift operator's palm. You said nothing until jumping on my post suggesting what you do is justified " if you schedule your launch for 0900, but don't show up till noon."

Different by a long shot.

[fishin4bogey]

Boatsail, you are absolutely correct. Drove a shuttle bus for a rental car company at Fort Lauderdale Airport maannny years ago. We had a list of flights and arrival times. Everyone would take their breaks when Air Canada was landing. You knew they had 10 bags each, and you were getting $.50. Otherwise I made a lot of money at that job.

[PDA1]

"Tips" means- To Insure Prompt Service.

I'd be inclined to change it to, as it really is- "TIS" To Insure Service. (Most "service" in the US seems to be so awful).

We aren't a floating bank and don't want to be treated like one.

Look at it a different way; it shouldn't be a practice to tip anyone for something you're paying for. I take my business elsewhere. There's the "cult of tipping". Tip the trash guy, tip the mailman (for being a clod) tip the paperboy. Where does it end?

If you want to throw your money around in the form of tips go right ahead.

On the other hand, if some marina workers provide excellent service and help in things they're under no obligation to do then I most often tip. It's a way of saying "thank you".

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by PDA1

Look at it a different way; it shouldn't be a practice to tip anyone for something you're paying for. I take my business elsewhere. There's the "cult of tipping". Tip the trash guy, tip the mailman (for being a clod) tip the paperboy. Where does it end?

And there's that moral outrage I was talking about...

If the reality is such that the wages these service people are paid is low based on the fact that they receive tips, then what? Don't tip b/c they are already being paid? But their pay is based on the cultural reality that they receive tips. So you are a one-person protest whose affects are to harm those who are already the most vulnerable. The owners aren't affected and don't care.

Most people in low-level service industries are paid below poverty rates, in part b/c they can make it up with tips. I fully agree with you that service people should be payed a living wage, but then that would make your diesel more expensive and your burgers pricer ... and then people would complain about that. Unless you're saying the owners and shareholders (many of whom are us) should take lower profits. Now there's the real answer.

There is a real problem with working poor all over the world. It is fundamentally unjust. But not tipping where a tip has become the norm only hurts the servers. Plus, it ignores local cultural realities.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And there's that moral outrage I was talking about...

If the reality is such that the wages these service people are paid is low based on the fact that they receive tips, then what? Don't tip b/c they are already being paid? But their pay is based on the cultural reality that they receive tips. So you are a one-person protest whose affects are to harm those who are already the most vulnerable. The owners aren't affected and don't care.

Most people in low-level service industries are paid below poverty rates, in part b/c they can make it up with tips. I fully agree with you that service people should be payed a living wage, but then that would make your diesel more expensive and your burgers pricer ... and then people would complain about that. Unless you're saying the owners and shareholders (many of whom are us) should take lower profits. Now there's the real answer.

There is a real problem with working poor all over the world. It is fundamentally unjust. But not tipping where a tip has become the norm only hurts the servers. Plus, it ignores local cultural realities.

If you are buying a service, like having a waiter bring your meal instead of picking it up yourself at a counter - and you know in advance tipping the waiter is the norm - then leaving a tip is the right thing to do. Whether the tip is small or large depends upon your ability to tip more, or less, and the quality of service you receive.

If you are buying something that becomes yours upon payment, and you are required to leave handling the something to a clerk, attendant or whatever before you can pay and take possession - and tipping is not the norm - then don't tip. An attendant is provided to fill your fuel tank is probably a case of the fuel depot wanting to avoid spills and to collect payment. It is in their best interest and not necessarily yours. What the attendant is paid is not normally something you'll know - so no moral dilemma there.

On the one hand you are expected to tip, regardless of what the server is being paid by the employer. Something you typically won't know anyway. On the other you cannot help yourself without an intermediary being involved - who will or will not be the person you pay for the item. Unless informed otherwise, you are not expected to tip in this situation. Regardless of what the intermediary is being paid. Again, something you typically will not know. No moral dilemma involved.

Whether or not a person is being paid fairly is a question to be considered between the employer and employee.

Me thinks you may be over-analyzing here, eh?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Wrong

If you are buying a service, like having a waiter bring your meal instead of picking it up yourself at a counter - and you know in advance tipping the waiter is the norm - then leaving a tip is the right thing to do. Whether the tip is small or large depends upon your ability to tip more, or less, and the quality of service you receive.

If you are buying something that becomes yours upon payment, and you are required to leave handling the something to a clerk, attendant or whatever before you can pay and take possession - and tipping is not the norm - then don't tip. An attendant is provided to fill your fuel tank is probably a case of the fuel depot wanting to avoid spills and to collect payment. It is in their best interest and not necessarily yours. What the attendant is paid is not normally something you'll know - so no moral dilemma there.

On the one hand you are expected to tip, regardless of what the server is being paid by the employer. Something you typically won't know anyway. On the other you cannot help yourself without an intermediary being involved - who will or will not be the person you pay for the item. Unless informed otherwise, you are not expected to tip in this situation. Regardless of what the intermediary is being paid. Again, something you typically will not know. No moral dilemma involved.

Whether or not a person is being paid fairly is a question to be considered between the employer and employee.

Me thinks you may be over-analyzing here, eh?

Hmmm, I'm not sure who's over-analyzing he Wrong... But I think we're sort of agreeing: tip when it's the norm, don't when it's not. You don't have to worry about all your back flips about a necessary intermediary or whose interest they are serving. You just have to take the time to observe local custom. Simple.

You're right, of course, that as travellers (and yes, I do travel a bit, even though I have not sailed far yet) we don't know all the customs and practices. But that's true of the whole breadth of the cultural experience. If you're a respectful traveller (as I know we all are) then you figure it out.

But I do have to take issue with your final statement about it all being between the employer and the employee. That is wilful ignorance on your part Wrong. That's like saying western consumers have no responsibility when it comes to sweatshops in Bangladesh, or yes, crappy wages paid to people who pump our gas. You're 'out there'. You can see what our "Lowest Price ... At any cost" culture is doing to workers everywhere.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And there's that moral outrage I was talking about...

If the reality is such that the wages these service people are paid is low based on the fact that they receive tips, then what? Don't tip b/c they are already being paid? But their pay is based on the cultural reality that they receive tips. So you are a one-person protest whose affects are to harm those who are already the most vulnerable. The owners aren't affected and don't care.

Most people in low-level service industries are paid below poverty rates, in part b/c they can make it up with tips. I fully agree with you that service people should be payed a living wage, but then that would make your diesel more expensive and your burgers pricer ... and then people would complain about that. Unless you're saying the owners and shareholders (many of whom are us) should take lower profits. Now there's the real answer.

There is a real problem with working poor all over the world. It is fundamentally unjust. But not tipping where a tip has become the norm only hurts the servers. Plus, it ignores local cultural realities.

Mike well put. I live in and come from a land where tipping is not the norm, where we recieve a living wage and don't have to expect a top up from the customer.
Having been a regular visitor to the States for many years in a previous job it was not until the fact was pointed out to me that many in the service industry in that country efectively are paid by the customer and not by the establishment, that my tipping reached the expected norm.
Just an explanation to those that live where tipping is the norm.

[montenido]

Hi all,

As a former busboy, dishwasher, waiter, etc., I almost always tip. If service is good, I am a bit more generous. I am still learning the sailing and cruising ropes, so I would not presume to know what to do. As a side note, I am participating in this year's Baja-Haha, which is an organized cruise from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas.

I have mentioned this to many people and have received the following responses: First, it is a great experience and I will meet lots of cruisers who are heading to the same areas as I.
Second, this big group of boats descends on these sleepy Baja towns, they throw money around and the next thing you know, everyone has to pay $20 per lobster, which is way above the norm.

I guess we can't/can have it both ways. I like to tip if I am happy with the effort. No effort, no tip. YMMV.

Cheers, Bill

[tamicatana]

When I travelled down the ICW this past fall/winter, I heard a joke:
"what's the difference between canoes and Canadians? Canoes tip."

[captain58sailin]

Tipping is not a city in China. I think it is an acronym for To Insure Prompt Service. Which used to be the valet parking your car at a fancy restaurant or to get seated quickly by the maitre d in a good place. Many service industry people recognized this and take advantage of human nature to pay a lower wage knowing that the customer will pick up the slack. Save your outrage for the people paying sub par wages. Oh wait, if they don't pay sub par wages then they cannot offer things at a lower price thus outraging the cliental (Us). So it comes full circle. So if you wish to tip then tip, if you don't then don't. The people on the receiving end of those tips are trying to feed and house their families too.