There is no Planet B

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Whatever view we might have on global warming, full-time liveaboard cruisers are already living one of the most environmentally friendly (first world) lifestyles there is.

spot on.

[Morgan Sailor]

[QUOTE= Ah but, isn't agriculture something to do with food production! So maybe an exclusion from the agreement is desirable! How else are we going to feed the ever increasing population? Mechanisation (using those nasty fossil fuels) has been responsible for much increased yields [/QUOTE]


It sure does have to do with food production, and it is by far the industry that causes the most harm to the environment. They tear down forests to grow feed for the animals, leaving us with less and less trees every year. The amount of water it requires to raise, slaughter, and bring an animal to market is huge, and then there is the Co2 and Methane the industry produces.

You're right we have made massive strides in our efforts to increase yield, but it comes at an environmental price. It's a trade off, do we feed everyone, or save the planet? Tough decision for sure. Looks like they decided to stick with the status quo and feed people, which is fair enough, but it angers me to see them all up there giving themselves a pat on the back when they have accomplished nothing.

I don't know what to believe, both sides have made compelling arguments, but if we as a society have decided there is a problem, then let's do something about it, not create very expensive photo ops. To make a serious change we would have to make a very dramatic change to our eating habits. I love my meat, as do many 1st world people, but until there is a reduction is consumed meat, we won't make a dent in the problem ( if you believe we have one).

Co2 is bad but the methane is much much worse. Even if we removed all man made Co2, the plant would still be in trouble.

The obvious answer is that since sailboat owners are already helping with the problem, we should never pay any taxes of any kind. Double tax the power boaters to make up the revenue. (Sorry, I needed to lighten the mood a bit).


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[Kenomac]

Climate Change, Global Warming is just another religion based on an apocalyptic model requiring all true believers to put massive amounts of cash into the offering tray in order to atone for sins past and present.

The billionaires profiting off this science manipulation are laughing all the way to the bank over the stupidity of the general population who have so willingly bought into their scheme.

I just wish I'd thought of it first....

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I am always amazed how many folks are ready to pipe up against efforts at reducing CO2 emissions here. If anyone should be aware of climate change it should be sailors, we see it everywhere. And to deny our own CO2 emissions are at fault is to plainly ignore data and statistics for the last 100 years. It does matter. It matters to my kids. Yes, it may be too little, too late, but for those of us who would like to talk to our children about their future plans, we'd really appreciate it if the naysayers and deniers would give it a rest. If we are right, and we act in time, you get a planet to live on too, if we are wrong... well we're not wrong, but if we were, the terrible thing that happens is that all nations get a cleaner, more energy independent and self-sustained economy.

Well said, Don.

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[tp12]

Fortunately for the planet, the people who don't want to act are becoming a smaller group and, as they tend to be older, will be gone sooner.

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[Kenomac]

Plants require copious amounts of CO2 to live. Plants produce oxygen as a byproduct of photosynthesis. We require oxygen to live.

We as humans need plants to eat and plants for the production of oxygen in order to survive. Simple.... but an inconvenient scientific truth.

[Reefmagnet]

It's actually our children that are the problem. There's just too many of the little darlings. They are all going to consume resources, get new iPhones every two years, burn energy on phones, ipods, computers, TV's and who knows what other power consuming gadgets. They'll want to drive cars, be employed in energy chomping industries whilst chugging away on bottled water and so on and so forth. Maybe we do need this mythical planet B after all to hold this excess humanity?

And, do some of you guys not realise that human civilization has risen to its current zenith by burning fuels just about from day dot? It defines us as a species. Whilst it is all well and good to utilise alternative energies, there is no way that burning of fossil fuels can be entirely replaced, not now or in the near future. In fact wanting to shut down the very processes that give us this moment in history for no other reason than a bunch of "what if" reasons is just plain stupid, imo.

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[Muckle Flugga]

What is it we need to be cutting down on? Hmmm… oh yes:

World Population Clock: 7.3 Billion People (2015) - Worldometers

[Delfin]

For those who are convinced that the MMGW theory is a taxation scheme disguised as science, and for those who think we are all doomed due to fossil fuel consumption, the following data should be heartening, if for different reasons.



This is a metastudy result that graphs the change in calculated climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere. If you're talking about what is the climate going to do over a 50 - 100 year period, the TCR (transient climate response measurement) is most useful.

Clearly, the belief that the question of whether global warming is manmade due to enhanced CO2 in the atmosphere cannot be "settled science" since the key driver of MMGW is a changing value. Settled science would be stuff like the speed of light in a vacuum. If you graph scientific understanding of that value over time you will have a flat line, not a descending trend line that cuts the value in half over a few year period. So relax, the science isn't settled, and until the trend line of what the real value is settles down to a flat line no actual scientist can say they know what that value us.

Further, since the trend is down and hasn't tapered off, it sure looks like if we check back in 5 years climate sensitivity will be lower still.

But let's assume that this trend of understanding is as low as it is going to get for the TCR measure, and will suddenly stop descending. What that would mean is that the objectives set by the Paris agreement of limiting temperature rise to 2 degrees will be met whether we do anything or not because even the IPCC doesn't think CO2 will double over the next century, so we will likely be well below the 2 degree mark. Once you take on board the meaning of this continuing decline in the value of the key driver of climate models, the performance of those models over time starts to make sense:



So 'deniers', relax. You're probably right. And 'climatistas', relax, everything is going to be ok and you can now look for some other crisis to worry about.

[Hoosiersailor]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

It's actually our children that are the problem. There's just too many of the little darlings. They are all going to consume resources, get new iPhones every two years, burn energy on phones, ipods, computers, TV's and who knows what other power consuming gadgets. They'll want to drive cars, be employed in energy chomping industries whilst chugging away on bottled water and so on and so forth. Maybe we do need this mythical planet B after all to hold this excess humanity?

Probably won't be very popular but it's very true.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Climate Change, Global Warming is just another religion based ...

“What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” Christopher Hitchens

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Hoosiersailor

Probably won't be very popular but it's very true.

Of course it's true. Economies need to constantly grow in order to prosper. One way to grow an economy is to grow the population. It's a no brainer that you'll sell a crap load more Hyundai's to a population base of 7 billion vs 3 billion. What government is going to stomp on this growth mechanism? Even China has relaxed it's one child policy. The irony is that those twice as many Hyundai's go on to produce twice as much pollution.

Rinse and repeat.


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[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Just a friendly hint SV. You have posted your belief that it's 'cultish', now let that rest. Don't start calling people on CF 'cult' members or the 'cultists' please. There no need for it and does nothing but offend.

Was the "Same friendly hint" (translated Threat) given to the MMGW Cultists for calling CF members Deniers? Na...didn't think so. My illustrative term "MMGW Cultists" is just a play off of their term "Denier" for anyone that dare doesn't believe in MMGW, and it does a great job of illustrating why they use the term when their religious landlguage is turned around on them. It's a debate technique of illustrating the absurd.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Don C L

CO2 emissions are at fault is to plainly ignore data and statistics for the last 100 years. .

Actually, there is a lot of evidence that CO2 follows warming but does not cause it. The sun is the overwhelming factor, by orders of magnitude, in the heating and cooling of the earth. Additionally, CO2 is one of the least effective of the so-called greenhouse gases. It is however the easiest to tax. Methane is many times more effective as a warming gas and water vapour is thousands of times more effective, but again, it is well neigh impossible to tax those two.

Having said this, I am all for anything that is more efficient and thus cleaner.

As others have said, nothing will change. Most nations couldn't even meet their fiscal goals to get into the Euro Zone, so it will be almost impossible for them to meet the goals of this new taxing scheme.

[Freemind]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Just a friendly hint SV. You have posted your belief that it's 'cultish', now let that rest. Don't start calling people on CF 'cult' members or the 'cultists' please. There no need for it and does nothing but offend.

I'm offended by being called a "denier".
Redistribute the wealth of the free world to tyrants. That's all it's about