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Old 18-12-2007, 23:08   #16
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Therapy
Come on down to Aus. You can help me move the boat from Fremantle to Thailand.
Just come a year early as the boat isn't finished yet

Mike

Sorry couldn't resist

If I did not have these anchors tied to each foot I might just do that, after I looked at the FastCat production line.
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Old 19-12-2007, 05:41   #17
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Over the summer Cindy and I were suppose to go out 3 separate times on the Chesapeake to experience sailing on private cats. All 3 times weather killed the trips. On 2 other occasions a broker backed out on us at the last minute do to what he called personal problems, more than likely it was someone higher on his priority list. At the boat show we fell in love with the 40' Leopard and struck up a rapport with the dealer and have maintained a line of communication with him. We found out on the Monday after the show the Manufactures were offering rides the next day but were never told about this by either salesmen. What we wanted was just the experience to be on a Cat for a day, just a preliminary feel. Even better yet would have been the ability to participate in the sail, or spend the day being able to ask all those newbie questions that nag you with direct answers from an experienced Captain or his first mate.
We have thought hard about the purchase of a boat, We've had a lot of people tell us we're nuts but then watched their beach house's fall into the ocean at the Outer Banks. We've been to the only major lake within a reasonable drive here in VA visiting with friends and woke to the sound of jet ski's, dog's barking, and the toothless wonder next door. The Lake was overcrowded and not very relaxing. All in all the idea of moving on if the scenery isn't what we like is appealing.
The plan was to get out on the Bay a few times this past summer.. didn't happen.
Since step 1 didn't happen step 2, sailing lessons, was pushed off to next spring when the classes on the Bay reopened. We have decided to combine our winter trip to the Caribbean with classes on Sailing and will be spending the week on a 40' cat. It sure would have been nice to have completed step 1 with some of you here before having to spend $5k, I even thought about posting a note "Crew Available" hoping someone would take pitty on us and offer a ride but we are not ones to impose. We could have paid for a ride but I didn't want to feel like a guest, I wanted to get "dirty", I even thought going out on a rough day would be of more benefit than a nice day.
Anyway here's my request to be put on "The List"
Who: 1 able bodied couple in there mid 50's looking for a working ride with virtually no sailing experience.
Where: The Chesapeake Bay area
When: A little warmer would be nice.
What: Looking for a day to a long weekend sail. We are novices with lots of questions, two hands each and willing to use them. I'm willing to spend time with someone to work on their boat to get "dry-dock" experience (sorry I don't think the wife will) and learn about general systems and maintenance. I'm not directly familiar with boat systems but have a background in commercial/Residential MEP system Design as well as Carpentry, Automotive Restoration (My main hobby), and love to take things apart. Not to bad at figuring out how to put them back together.
I guess what this all boils down to is I'm sure there are a lot of people who would make the request I have but don't want to impose either. You all have a wealth of info and experience, this site is great for info, to be able to carry it to the next level, would be fantastic for us Newbies. There are so many things to learn you probably don't realize how overwhelming it is to us. I don't want to make a huge $$$$$ mistake let alone a life threatening one.

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 19-12-2007, 05:49   #18
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Interesting notion. I know that between 1 and 3 years ago, when we were still trying to figure out what we wanted, this would have been something we would have liked.

Speaking as someone about to take possession of our new (to us) cat in a couple of weeks, I think we would be open to playing host for such a thing. In some respects, it would be like having some extra crew along (handy when doing multi-day passages), such that it would meet some needs for all.

Speaking only for myself, I think I would need a few prerequisites to be in place. First, would be that the forum member would have to have enough experience to at least be able to take a watch. Second, that they would commit to following a few basic life-on-board compatiblity rules (the usuals regarding no smoking in the boat, clean up after yourself, watch the water/electricity use). Third, the willingness to share expenses proportionately. I see all of these as falling under the usual "be a good neighbor/boater" expectations.

ID

Cool idea. I'd say another thing you want to look for is someone you *like* from the forum. Dno't forget that spending a day (or more) on a boat with someone is a very intimate experience. There are several members I'd take out if I still had the boat... others... maybe not so much.
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Old 19-12-2007, 06:37   #19
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I agree SS, I thought a day or 2 on the Hard would be a good way to put both parties at ease. Much easier to get away from a blind date on land than water! Seriously though I'm new here and see this as a disadvantage as to getting a ride. Hopefully by this spring I'll work up to being just a novice.

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 19-12-2007, 09:18   #20
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Hyprdrv.

All of what you say is true.
Most won't ask, like you said.
I suppose I am more frustrated so am willing to take more chances.
I know it is the internet and all so who really knows.
There are probably not too many predators offering mini-cruises.
If there were predators trying to get aboard I would think someone would post or we would be seeing posts of missing boats and people.

I am ahead in that I have time on mono hulls but not on cruising/liveaboard cats. Hobie's don't count for much except for the capsizing experience and transferred pucker factor.

I did meet one nice person that allowed me to inspect/visit their boat. I greatly appreciated that experience. Thank you!! I know I stayed too long.........sorry!

They, as far as I know, are still living life just fine even though I have their phone number and know where they live.

I also do not wish to take advantage of a broker just to get some time on the water on a cat. I don't feel that would be right. When I interview and select a broker I want them working to find a boat to buy, not just visit for a ride.

Rides would be nice but I know there is no way to take all the contenders out in rough weather to size them up. Trusting others has to happen some time.
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Old 19-12-2007, 09:52   #21
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I'm a landlubber, brand new to this, only been on a boat 4 times in my life, 3 of them power boats.

I would jump at the chance for a day sail, but I wouldn't go cruising with anyone just yet, as much as it attracts me. Right now I am content to read all I can about boats and the yachtie lifestyle. I'm taking baby steps, right now (I have plenty of time, I'm only 21). Having zero experience, I would hesitate to be on a boat for more than a day sail, fearing that I'd earn the role of the "Incompetent Kid" if not in the captain's mind, than at least in my own. As many of you have stated, confidence is very important, so I plan to take a sailing course and unload all of my frustrating questions on professional teachers and gain confidence in that way. Perhaps at some point in the future when I have much more knowledge and experience under my belt, I will be brave enough to sail with you.

My $0.02
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Old 19-12-2007, 09:59   #22
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Just been skimming this thread this morning.
I have a 41' MaineCat in the PNW (Friday Harbor). Let's just say that if you want to come 'try one out' for a daysail or perhaps a 1 or 2 night mini cruise.... the offer is OPEN.

I'd just say, contact me and let's talk. We love to share our love of sailing and cats and even MaineCats.

Chris at LifewerksFoundation dot org.
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Old 19-12-2007, 10:15   #23
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K..................
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Old 19-12-2007, 11:14   #24
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I also do not wish to take advantage of a broker just to get some time on the water on a cat. I don't feel that would be right. When I interview and select a broker I want them working to find a boat to buy, not just visit for a ride.

Therapy,
I should have been clearer on that point, I fully disclosed to the broker my intent.
1. We are new to this.
2. Step 1, get us on a cruising cat on the Bay for a few hours so we could get a feel. Get my lovely wife excited about this, show her the beauty of sailing, the comfort available, the bay from the water line. Show me I'm not dealing with the conditions of that lake life. I wasn't asking for a private cruise or anything special. I test drive cars I don't end up buying, get me excited to take this to the next level.
3. Step 2, take lessons preferably on the Chesapeake since that's where we plan on spending a few years to get our sea legs and experience.
4. Step 3, assemble the funds to buy a boat.
5. Step 4, buy a boat.
Steps 1 through 4 were to happen this year. Buy the end of December.
Leasing a boat in the Caribbean was going to happen in Feb or March of 08.
Final commitment to purchase was on selection and availability of the boat.

We never got off of Step one, may have been my fault, maybe I was to dependent on this one broker, but I didn't know anyone with a 36+ cat to get a ride so I had to depend on a broker to set it up. We did spend the night with some friends on there 46 foot sloop and had a great time with them. Bad weather kept us from heading out the next day.
I'll relate this to a car purchase. Cindy and I went to a dealer at the ripe age of 24 to buy, at that time, an expensive sports car. Walked into the dealership and stood there for 10 minutes with 5 or 6 sales guys talking sports. I walked over and said we would like some information on buying the car and was told someone would be along and some other smart ass remark. I was so pissed I walked out and went 30 miles to there competitor who was on me in seconds and within 30 minutes had a contract for a custom ordered car. Point is there job is to assist not asses. One day I'll pull up to their dock in the boat I want and thank them for all there help. I think he will get the point.
I wouldn't think of wasting anyones time or my own if I wasn't serious about this. I drove 1 hour each way to appointments that were canceled by a broker at the last minute.
One last funny (at least to me) thing. My Investment Broker's office is in Annapolis. It just so happens to look out on the Boat Brokers office and dock. My IB early last summer said he would be happy to walk the check over when the time came. Needless to say I guess I'm going to have to pay for postage now.

I'll get there,

Steve
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Old 19-12-2007, 12:47   #25
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I also do not wish to take advantage of a broker just to get some time on the water on a cat.

Therapy,
I should have been clearer on that point, I fully disclosed to the broker my intent.


I'll get there,

Steve
I understand.
I am just in a bit of a quandry on how to get this done myself.
Too bad the brokers short-cancelled you. I would not be happy either.
Best of luck.
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Old 19-12-2007, 12:59   #26
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Liberty -- there was a time when we were all brand spanking new to this. In many ways, we all (and most certainly, I myself) remain new, at least to certain things. E.G., bad storms -- thank you, very much, but I would just as soon remain a complete neophyte. Hopefully, a prepared one, many thanks to our friends here who have been through them.

I'm not sure what we would do further on this topic -- put up some sort of contact list? Potential hosts/boats/locations? Potential guests?

At the risk of creating thread drift, I've found Steve's comments about boat brokers to be right on. While there have been a few -- a precious few -- that really seem to be on top of their game, I've found most of them to be sadly lacking in a number of ways. Far too casual in their contacts; too optimistic about whatever they were selling, while denigrating of anything they weren't; unreliable in their schedules; seemingly just uninterested; poor follow through; poor research -- the list goes on.

From having had a recent experience with my two real estate agents who worked as a team, I've gotten to see up close how it could be. Let me tell you, these two have earned their commission, and I hold no reluctance or ill feelings about them getting it. I've told them that if they ever wanted to get into the boat selling business, with their work ethic, attitude, and willingness to go a number of extra miles for their clients; they could get substantial market share and teach the others a thing or two.

I don't understand why more boat brokers aren't like them.

ID
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Old 19-12-2007, 14:07   #27
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<snip>

I'm not sure what we would do further on this topic -- put up some sort of contact list? Potential hosts/boats/locations? Potential guests?
Just as there are companies set up to facilitate home exchanges, I believe there is a potential profit opportunity available in the area of "boat exchange." Here are a few entities doing home exchanges:

HomeExchange.com
Home Exchange International. House Exchange Home Swap
HomeLink - home exchange house swap

The foregoing are merely examples, not recommendations.

Exactly how it would work with boats, I'm not sure. Perhaps it would require an exchange of vessels of comparable worth. Trading time aboard a 50-foot cat in the Caribbean for equal time aboard a Catalina 27 in Oxnard seems unlikely.

It may even be that the exchange only happens with the understanding that those who travel to a vessel are essentially guests, while the vessel's owners are the hosts. The guests are free to pitch in, but aren't required to. Then when the roles are reversed, the same rules apply. I could see deep friendships growing out of such trades.

I think that the insertion of an arm's-length third party into the transaction to "qualify" participants would take a lot of the anxiety out of it. Essentially, it is much like the chartering business model, except that the vessels involved are under the constant care and usage of the most interested parties in the transaction - the owners themselves - and the often staggering cost of chartering is replaced by a like-kind exchange of accommodations and services, with the added benefit of having a (presumably) experienced guide when you visit a vessel in waters unknown to you.

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<snip>

At the risk of creating thread drift, I've found Steve's comments about boat brokers to be right on. While there have been a few -- a precious few -- that really seem to be on top of their game, I've found most of them to be sadly lacking in a number of ways. Far too casual in their contacts; too optimistic about whatever they were selling, while denigrating of anything they weren't; unreliable in their schedules; seemingly just uninterested; poor follow through; poor research -- the list goes on.

From having had a recent experience with my two real estate agents who worked as a team, I've gotten to see up close how it could be. Let me tell you, these two have earned their commission, and I hold no reluctance or ill feelings about them getting it. I've told them that if they ever wanted to get into the boat selling business, with their work ethic, attitude, and willingness to go a number of extra miles for their clients; they could get substantial market share and teach the others a thing or two.

I don't understand why more boat brokers aren't like them.

ID
I agree wholeheartedly with ID's observations on brokers. A conscientious, professional agent facilitating the consummation of a complicated, expensive transaction, is worth his/her well-earned commission every time. There are certainly such people in the real estate business - probably more so now that the serious downturn has shaken out the less-qualified.

Even the good ones, though, had gotten infuriatingly complacent when selling real estate was almost too easy. (I was looking at property in Vermont a couple of years ago when an agent who was antsy to get a signed contract referred to me as a "time-suck" for insisting on doing thorough due diligence.)

Boat brokers, though, face much lower barriers to entry into their "profession." Again, there are some excellent ones, and there are many for whom the concepts of service and professionalism are little understood. I've come to the conclusion in the last ten years, or so, that I much prefer to deal directly with the seller of a boat or an airplane, even a house.

TaoJones
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Old 19-12-2007, 14:43   #28
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Hyprdrv...

Hyprdrv,
If you want to go out on my Cal 34 monohull spring 08 on the Chesapeake, shoot me an email then. I am moving household and boat to the Eastern Shore from the West River, but may have time to take you and your wife out, maybe introduce you to some other sailors in the area.

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Old 19-12-2007, 20:22   #29
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There is at least one sailbaot exchange set up. Not a tremendous amount of traction yet.

Sailboat Exchange
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Old 20-12-2007, 04:56   #30
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Breakaway,
Thank You! I will send an Email to you for contact info.
This is probably like a kid getting out of collage and a prospective employer just doesn't know what he's going to get. You don't put him on the BIG RED BUTTON until he's got the boss feeling warm and fuzzy. We have most of the books for sailing classes and know quiz each other on the contents. We are now in the process of scheduling a week in the Bahamas on a Cat for lessons in March. Meeting and learning from the "locals" on the home port (Chesapeake) will give us incite on a number of issues, local navigational concerns, best Marinas, and even things to do. Hopefully even a meet and greet or two. If all goes as planed I'll be returning the favor by the end of the summer.

Steve
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