Kaiser Gale Force 34 Trim Issue

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by holtjp

My thanks to all for taking the time to hell ID the problem. I hauled out very early in the am and could find nothing obvious below the waterline. That leaves the prop (overpropped and overpowered) and trim as the only possible culprits. Ran down the Penobscot River with a fair current of almost three knots and hit GPS speeds of 6.5 to 7.5 knots. If I kept the rpms below 1400 the exhaust port was still above water, anything greater and it got buried underwater. Same was true even when out of the tidal current. Planning to leave as much G4 chain in the upper/most forward locker when I weigh anchor in the morning. I have already shifted as much gear as I can into the forward spaces. Chain is my only remaining ballast. I did previously add about 100 lbs of lead ingots in the space the holding tank formerly occupied. Will keep trying other trim options, but more and more I lean towards the prop as the culprit. Boat sits level as can be at anchor and no damage to the prop noted during the quick haul out. Engine runs smooth and the boat accelerates quickly.

It sounded as though the problem did not exist prior the you making minor alterations in weight. Possibly being over propped but fail to see the correlation with the weight? Is the engine bogging down?

[holtjp]

It is very possible the reduction in weight, even if small, unmasked an issue with boat-motor-prop configuration. I plan to visit the PE Luke yard and see if they might be able to help diagnose. I do have an older Luke prop that needs rebuilding, but that might be a better match. Thanks for the thought.

[Jim Cate]

Perhaps I'm being dense, but I don't see how a prop, no matter how badly matched to the engine and boat, could be causing this problem.

The only things that influence the underway balance of the boat are its hydrodynamics and the fore and aft weight distribution. If you are motoring at the same speed and the boat floats on her lines at rest, i don't see why there should be a big difference in her attitude. The boat requires the same thrust to achieve a given speed, and cares not what is driving it... sail, well matched prop or poorly matched prop. The flow around the hull, and the waves that it generates are the same (not taking into account heel angle which is not a factor when motoring).

Weight distribution could have some effect, but the amounts you describe seem inconsequential. Having a couple of crew members wandering about the deck would be much the same...

So, I'm forced to ask: are you really sure that it is squatting far more than before at the same speed? Some squat in a displacement hull is normal as boat speed increases, and I'm wondering if this is more of a perception discrepancy than a physical one? I mean no disrespect in this, but I'm baffled by the situation as described.

Jim

[holtjp]

Jim, I agree with just about all your comments, which makes me stumped as heck as to what is going on. The difference from last year to this is very, very noticeable. Not just for me, but for everyone in my boatyard familiar with the boat. My biggest concern is burying the exhaust port under three inches of water if I throttle up to more than 1400 rpms. With the overpower/overpropped scenario the power and thrust are such that the boat tries to out race its own wave, which produces a big bow wave, a deep middle trough, and a pronounced trailing wave at the stern. The issue is not the prop pulling the stern down, but the trailing wave pushing up. Wish I understood the hydrodynamic issues better.

[malbert73]

A true mystery. But being overpropped won't make the boat squat. Trying to motor too fast beyond hull speed will make it squat. So are you motoring faster than last year? if you had lots of growth on bottom last year, and now it's clean, maybe you're motoring faster and making it squat?

Sorry for trivial answer above. But unless weight balance is off, or boat is motoring faster, or someone lopped off part of your transom- prop shouldn't matter. Speed and hydrodynamics are what they are. Prop is irrelevant to trim if speed is same.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[mstrebe]

At the speeds you're talking about (1400 rpm, 3 knots) nothing about the prop would cause the issue. A displacement boat that size would be wake-less and without significant bow wave until 5 knots. Even with a vastly incorrect prop size and pitch, the issues would be getting to those speeds, not squatting.

This is truly a mystery if you'd determined that no weight is shifting and the boat sits level at anchor. I assume because she's just launched that the hull is clean, and there isn't some strange drag issue being caused by crusties.

[Sailmonkey]

Is this really a problem? We run around any time were under power with the exhaust port under water. In fact if I bury the throttle and give the boat an Italian tune up water will enter the cockpit through the aft drain from the stern squaring. Under sail, no such squat.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[GerryL]

So this is an old thread; I'm curious if the issue was resolved. I also see the OP hasn't been here in over a year. Mabe he'll get an email notification and check in? I can hope.
Anyway, I've been reading about Gale Force 34s after seeing one in the GGR.

[holtjp]

I made the original posting and was a relatively new owner of Pleione when I did so. I have since learned the trait is seemingly common to other Kaisers as well. Under any throttle setting above 1800 rpms the stern is pulled downward quite noticeably. The condition is not present at any speed or wind direction while under sail. The condition does not seem to affect fuel efficiency or top speed. I did change from a fairly large fixed prop to a smaller "sailor" model in an attempt to address the issue. I was happy with the prop change for overall performance, but the change did not appreciably alter the squatting issue.

[GerryL]

Holy smokes! You came back to reply! Thanks for the info, I am trying to learn a bit more about these boats. They look nice. Not too many around though, since not many were made in the first place.

Do you sail Maine? That is our goal, if we ever get a bigger boat. We sail a small Montgomery 17 on inland waters, but we did a week long sailing trip out of Rockland and loved it. We've been watching semi-seriously for a year or slightly more, but the pandemic drove prices from what I could see. The other issue is that some of the boats we've been interested in have been victims of CAS, and the sellers weren't interested in dropping price enough to compensate. So maybe I should be looking at only boats with external chainplates; while I am not a big fan of the appearance, I sure am a fan of the accessibility.

[Orion Jim]

“CAS” ?

[GerryL]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

“CAS” ?

Ah, that is something I learned about here on CF. My real world searching has proven that this is, in fact, a thing.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...me-269241.html

[yachtmirage]

Hi, I am seeing this 8 years after the fact. I have had my Gale Force 34 for almost 44 years original owner. Never had this problem with either my Westerbeke 40 or my 38. Both engines used 3 blade prop. I do have 400 lbs of chain up forward. Anyway my boat is ready to cruise. Nelson3452 who knows you said you had a great boat. I am asking about $25K less that you paid but not much interest. Maybe I will give it away or action it off. I don't think there are any cruisers left out there.

Anyway feel free to contact me with any questions you might have. Good luck in your cruising adventures. You can read my for sale blog with the many blue water adventures my wife and I have done. Regards Yacht MIRAGE