Inboard engines and a changing world

[Pizzazz]

Let's look at the bigger picture. We are recreational boaters and sail for pleasure. Burning fossil fuels creates a carbon footprint. Once society decides to limit CO2 emissions for recreational boating they will find a way to do it. For example, the cost of marina fuel may become 5x more expensive to cover the perceived cost of emitting CO2. Then we can decide whether to sail 90% of the time and use a diesel engine in emergencies only, risk it with an electric/solar/batteries setup or just pay the cost. I hope this is a long way off but you never know.

The more interesting question is how to power commercial shipping. There you have the same considerations, batteries for short haul and alternative fuels (gas, hydrogen, even sail, we may actually go back to the sailing ship era, for shipping goods). This will likely limit air travel as well or make it a lot costlier.

If you think about it, the core issue is the number of people on Earth who want to physically move from one continent to the other for fun, work or for distributed production, i.e. goods made in China being shipped to the US. It works with 200 million travelling, it works with 400 million people travelling (the current estimate of how many have ever flown) but it definitely does not work with 4 billion people travelling back and forth. So, when we say I don't want to sail/motor at 3 knots but want 7 knots or even 20 knots on a plane, we need to understand that it is a privilege and it cannot happen if 4 billion people decide to do the same. So, let's enjoy the hobby while we can.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Let's look at the bigger picture. We are recreational boaters and sail for pleasure. Burning fossil fuels creates a carbon footprint. Once society decides to limit CO2 emissions for recreational boating they will find a way to do it. For example, the cost of marina fuel may become 5x more expensive to cover the perceived cost of emitting CO2. Then we can decide whether to sail 90% of the time and use a diesel engine in emergencies only, risk it with an electric/solar/batteries setup or just pay the cost. I hope this is a long way off but you never know.

The more interesting question is how to power commercial shipping. There you have the same considerations, batteries for short haul and alternative fuels (gas, hydrogen, even sail, we may actually go back to the sailing ship era, for shipping goods). This will likely limit air travel as well or make it a lot costlier.

If you think about it, the core issue is the number of people on Earth who want to physically move from one continent to the other for fun, work or for distributed production, i.e. goods made in China being shipped to the US. It works with 200 million travelling, it works with 400 million people travelling (the current estimate of how many have ever flown) but it definitely does not work with 4 billion people travelling back and forth. So, when we say I don't want to sail/motor at 3 knots but want 7 knots or even 20 knots on a plane, we need to understand that it is a privilege and it cannot happen if 4 billion people decide to do the same. So, let's enjoy the hobby while we can.

That time comes and I start making my own fuel again . Plenty of old plastic to refine back to fuel oil .

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That time comes and I start making my own fuel again . Plenty of old plastic to refine back to fuel oil .

You won’t have to worry about doing that they’ll be plenty of diesel fuel around , it’s not possible to Eliminate it to that extent because it will become prohibitively expensive , it will destroy our economy , You can see the evidence of that already

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Baby tug

You won’t have to worry about doing that they’ll be plenty of diesel fuel around , it’s not possible to Eliminate it to that extent because it will become prohibitively expensive , it will destroy our economy , You can see the evidence of that already

Preaching to the choir I am retired now but owned a 3 truck flatbed trucking company.
My making my own is responding to the proposed future cost of fuel.

[JBP]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That time comes and I start making my own fuel again . Plenty of old plastic to refine back to fuel oil .

You start that now, plenty of trash plastic around causing problems. I bet you could sell "recycled plastic diesel" for quite a premium.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by JBP

You start that now, plenty of trash plastic around causing problems. I bet you could sell "recycled plastic diesel" for quite a premium.

Not yet I'm waiting till I can do it without the government sticking its fingers in it.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Let's look at the bigger picture. We are recreational boaters and sail for pleasure. Burning fossil fuels creates a carbon footprint. Once society decides to limit CO2 emissions for recreational boating they will find a way to do it. For example, the cost of marina fuel may become 5x more expensive to cover the perceived cost of emitting CO2. Then we can decide whether to sail 90% of the time and use a diesel engine in emergencies only, risk it with an electric/solar/batteries setup or just pay the cost. I hope this is a long way off but you never know.

This'll sound weird coming from me, but I believe that as long as we manage to reduce CO2 emissions overall, then we could possibly have more lattitude in how we use a lower amount of fuel.

For example, if I am a conscientious commuter during the week - carpooling, taking transit, riding my bike - that's a big drop from just commuting every day in my car, alone. So, it's less of a world problem if I run a diesel aux in my sailboat on the weekend or on vacation.

There are many wasteful and short-sighted uses of fossil fuel and other resources. Car-commuting is one. Inefficient buildings is another. When we cut down on wasteful consumption, and switch to alternatives where we can, then that adds some "room" in the carbon budget for better uses of fossil fuels, where the energy density is not easily replaced.

A more realistic fuel price, and/or carbon taxation is probably the fairest way to discourage wasteful use of fossil fuels, that still gives people the freedom to choose what they use it for.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

This'll sound weird coming from me, but I believe that as long as we manage to reduce CO2 emissions overall, then we could possibly have more lattitude in how we use a lower amount of fuel.

For example, if I am a conscientious commuter during the week - carpooling, taking transit, riding my bike - that's a big drop from just commuting every day in my car, alone. So, it's less of a world problem if I run a diesel aux in my sailboat on the weekend or on vacation.

There are many wasteful and short-sighted uses of fossil fuel and other resources. Car-commuting is one. Inefficient buildings is another. When we improve on some of these big excesses, then that adds some "room" in the carbon budget for better uses of fossil fuels, where the energy density is not easily replaced.

A more realistic fuel price, and/or carbon taxation is probably the fairest way to discourage wasteful use of fossil fuels, that still gives people the freedom to choose what they use it for.

You do realise CO2 is necessary and vital for life right .

[Corvidae]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You do realise CO2 is necessary and vital for life right .

All animal life on Earth makes co2. We'll never have a shortage that we care about.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You do realise CO2 is necessary and vital for life right .

Nice try.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That time comes and I start making my own fuel again . Plenty of old plastic to refine back to fuel oil .

What heat source do you use to refine plastic back to diesel-just curious. Maybe tree wood?

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

This'll sound weird coming from me, but I believe that as long as we manage to reduce CO2 emissions overall, then we could possibly have more lattitude in how we use a lower amount of fuel.

For example, if I am a conscientious commuter during the week - carpooling, taking transit, riding my bike - that's a big drop from just commuting every day in my car, alone. So, it's less of a world problem if I run a diesel aux in my sailboat on the weekend or on vacation.

There are many wasteful and short-sighted uses of fossil fuel and other resources. Car-commuting is one. Inefficient buildings is another. When we cut down on wasteful consumption, and switch to alternatives where we can, then that adds some "room" in the carbon budget for better uses of fossil fuels, where the energy density is not easily replaced.

A more realistic fuel price, and/or carbon taxation is probably the fairest way to discourage wasteful use of fossil fuels, that still gives people the freedom to choose what they use it for.

When will wood burning stoves be used to heat hi rise skyscrapers? Cant wait!

[geoleo]

Diesel and its close relatives--- Jet fuel, kerocene, home heating oil have lots more BTU s per unit than gasoline-- thats why they cost more. Outboatds really suck at fuel efficency on any boat.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Diesel and its close relatives--- Jet fuel, kerocene, home heating oil have lots more BTU s per unit than gasoline-- thats why they cost more. Outboatds really suck at fuel efficency on any boat.

Not entirely correct price is higher due to demand not btu content .
Jet fuel = kerosene
Diesel= home heating oil.
Gasoline should cost more as it takes more energy in to distill it out of crude oil.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by geoleo

What heat source do you use to refine plastic back to diesel-just curious. Maybe tree wood?

Actually the best would be solar energy . in pure form but in grown plant form works good. My preference would be to use coal. As it is just trees .