FULL verses FIN

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by Topazken

Wheeler,
I appreciate the sentiment. Unfortunately, I mistook the forum for a serious discussion. There are plenty of opinions on here stated much more forcefully than mine but I made the mistake of claiming experience. I see how that kind of takes the fun out of the back and forth.

I take water sailing">blue water sailing very serious. A good part of the time it is party time in the anchorage but the rest demands respect. Most issues regarding cruising can be considered opinion, others cannot.

I did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings. I apologize. I have tried to edit my posts but that feature seems to have been disabled. I am also unable to delete my registration. I would appreciate your help with this.

Keep the lead side down!

Ken,

I have found that most of the members here "Take blue water sailing very serious". It is statements like, "most issues regarding cruising can be considered opinion, others cannot" that some may find disturbing. It sort of implies that if someone disagrees with your opinion on "blue water sailing", they are are wrong and that your opinion cannot be challenged.

Although that statement may be accurate in some cases, it will not be accurate in others. I have done 2 circumnavigations and I have my way of handling things on my vessel. It doesn't make them right and it doesn't make them wrong. It just makes me skipper of my vessel and that's why there is only one skipper on any vessel.. This forum gives me the opportunity to share with others what I have experienced and what has worked for me and what I have seen, through my many years of cruising, that has not worked for others.

Every skipper has to decide what is right and what is wrong on his own vessel. If you have the experience that you claim to have, you may well be an asset to many people that are thinking of a cruising lifestyle. I would encourage you to share your "OPINIONS" but keep in mind that you may learn something here too.

I am retired from cruising but have been frustrated for several years by not being able to share the knowledge that I obtained in 14 years of cruising and yacht deliveries. After returning from my last circumnavigation, I was invited to speek at several yacht clubs. I did that but found it to be quite frustrating due to the lack of experience and/or the lack of "Real" enthusiasm for off-shore cruising. This has been a real outlet for me and I have learned a few things on here as well. Stick around, you may do the same. Just try to loose the arrogance.

You continually quote "Book writers" as though they are some sort of sailing Gods. The fact is, some are more book writers then they are sailors IMO. I have read plenty of stuff from some of these people that I do not agree with. Some people idolize some of these writers (some of whom, I knew personally) yet some of the advise that some give I would consider dangerous. However, that is my "OPINION" and I will keep it as such.

[Randyonr3]

Loging on I saw the poll, it was even 12 to 12..
When we purchased our boat, many items came into play, the fin vs the full.. the fact was, in the end, we came down to two boats.. The Hans Christian 42 or the Beneteau FIRST 42... And the choice was'nt just mine, remember I live and cruise with someone else on this boat.
When sailing the HC 42, we felt slugish, manuvering was slow and what seamed to be the largest disapointment with the HC42 was that you needed a tremendous amount of wind to get it to move.
The B42 moved in light wind, manuvered well and was very responsive.. All lines were also easy to get to.. It just felt good, and damn, it was fast.
I'll be the first to admit, that there have been times that I wished I had made the other choice but not to often.
The fin keel FIRST 42 has lived up to everything I've expected, But I expect that I may have a rare breed of a fin keel, as also I might think that there are full keeled boats that just dont handle worth a darn.
I dont have any problems to heav-to, she might be a little light at anchor but an added line to the rear to point her into the swells will fix that.
And In heavy air, the faster she runs the more stable she sets.. Points like a hound dog and runs like she was on tracks
The issue of running aground has come up before, but for me, I just take it a little slower when the areas are questioned.. But in open water, "let'r buck"

[chad.lawie]

full keel takes the lead 14 / 13 !! come on full keelers! bring us home!

[delmarrey]

Restart on topic............

[chad.lawie]

fin keels are like a dodge neon... little whimpy things. If i'm going off road... I want a ford f-350. desiel.

[Hud3]

I've sailed offshore in Force 8 conditions in both fin keel and full keel boats.

The fin keel boat steered more easily, allowing me to work my way up and over the wave crests in a manner which avoided causing the bow to slam and stress the rig as it came down on the far side of the crest. This required a great deal of concentration, however. Let your attention wander for a second at the wrong moment, and "Bang/Shudder" goes the boat. Not good!

The full keel boat was noticeably less responsive at the helm, but for some reason didn't need the constant attention at the wheel to avoid slamming. She just went up and over, shouldering her way through the waves.

Note: on our last passage from Virginia to Tortola, in the Caribbean 1500, three fin keel boats lost all or part of their rudders in heavy, quartering seas.

[delmarrey]

I'm not sure my wife could handle a 40' F-350. Remember, 14,000 # per person is a general rule for single-handing. If a fin keel is built properly for blue-water then it'll hold up to any abuse that a full keel will take.

I've grounded my fin several times and once so hard it practically dislodged the motor and it's doing just fine.

A good blue-water boat can be hung by it's fin keel and/or mast without worry.

People that spend a lot of time in trans-ocean crossings probably should own full keeler. But for a lot (island hoppers) it's over kill.

[Kanani]

Originally Posted by chad.lawie

full keel takes the lead 14 / 13 !! come on full keelers! bring us home!

What you see here is a direct reflection of the sailboat market.

I would think that no one is going to vote for "Full keel" if they own a "Fin keel" and visa-versa.

Most modern sailboats are built with fin keel and spade rudder. However, most boats are not taken across oceans. That's the big difference here.

I feel that most sailboats are designed and marketed for the coastal cruiser and day-sailor. After-all, that's what the vast majority of sailbots are sold for. I would think that very few people actually by a new sailboat with the thought of crossing oceans with it. Look at the millions of sailboats in marinas that are seldom moved, much less cross oceans.

My Passport 45 (which is really a glorified Peterson 44) has a modified full keel with a heavily built skeg rudder. It was definately built for crossing oceans however. It has the best of both worlds IMO. It does not back well. That is where fin keel/spade rudder boats have the advantage. Also, when entering a slip in the marina (which I tried to stay out of), I had to stop, back, steer with the engine while stopping and backing, then pull straight into the slip. A fin keel/spade rudder boat can often make the turn in one manuever.

Getting around the marinas is far easier in a fin keel/spade rudder boat IMO. It takes a real talent to manuever a full keel boat and most skippers relish in the ability to do so. However, it does take time to develop the skill.

However, if you are into long ocean passages, a full keel steers a straighter course, is safer and more comfortable in my experience. In 99% of cases, both designs finish long ocean passages in relatively the same time and with equal success. It's just that 1% that bugs me .

[Pelagic]

My experiences tend to agree with Hud’s observations. Also in heavy weather a full keel will give you that softer cushion when coming down off a large wave. Much easier on the crew and boat.

[chad.lawie]

14,000 # per person.
Last summer in Chaumont, NY. Way way upstate, a couple pulled in from germany on a 65 foot steel ketch. I didn't seem them dock it. I can't imagine how two people could handle that boat. even with all the automatic winches and gadgets...

[2Hulls]

What's a keel anyway?

Dave

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by 2Hulls

What's a keel anyway?

Dave

Careful!

[2Hulls]

I'm always careful.

Perhaps the poll should include a choice for "none"? - or "other"?

Dave

[delmarrey]

Or, perhaps we should move this to the Monohull forums so no one gets confused.

Originally Posted by chad.lawie

14,000 # per person.
Last summer in Chaumont, NY. Way way upstate, a couple pulled in from germany on a 65 foot steel ketch. I didn't seem them dock it. I can't imagine how two people could handle that boat. even with all the automatic winches and gadgets...

The discussions over the past few years on the forum, 14,000 # per crew member seems to have been the dividing line for most applications.

[Joli]

Del, I'll be nice. Hello Dave, Happy New Year.

When racing light boats we tended to try to fall of the wave with some heel so we landed on the turn of the bilge. Usually 10~15 degrees of heel.

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Or, perhaps we should move this to the Monohull forums so no one gets confused.



The discussions over the past few years on the forum, 14,000 # per crew member seems to have been the dividing line for most applications.