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Old 17-05-2011, 20:34   #1501
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post

2. The additional living space on deck, especially in the tropics. Having lived aboard a mono in some hot areas, as everyone probably knows, it become unbearable down below so you spend as much time as possible on deck under the awning. To have the additional space a mult offers on deck is a huge plus in my book.

I have read Mark's posts with great interest and the Searunner -that I never, ever heard of before arriving the Sea of Cortez 6 months ago - together with the Wharram cats are the only multihulls I would ever consider....


In all friendliness I gotta agree to disagree on the above, since from our experience, (though it might well be true for a non-cored multi.)

Our cored (=insulated) mono is in fact cooler down below than under the awning on deck when it gets really hot. This means that when it gets to hot in the cockpit we often take refuge down below. Other great advantages with cored GRP hulls are 1. silent 2. to my knowledge the strongest hull material per weight except cold molded.

Lots of good points though. But again, all the stuff Mark is listing, we carry too, minus scuba gear but plus a LOT of additional stuff in our 35' mono.

Boats are boats, in many way similar, in many ways different.

Each and every one has to pick accoring to his/her fancy.
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Old 17-05-2011, 21:41   #1502
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by svrodeorm View Post
I have read Mark's posts with great interest and the Searunner -that I never, ever heard of before arriving the Sea of Cortez 6 months ago - together with the Wharram cats are the only multihulls I would ever consider....


In all friendliness I gotta agree to disagree on the above, since from our experience, (though it might well be true for a non-cored multi.)

Our cored (=insulated) mono is in fact cooler down below than under the awning on deck when it gets really hot. This means that when it gets to hot in the cockpit we often take refuge down below. Other great advantages with cored GRP hulls are 1. silent 2. to my knowledge the strongest hull material per weight except cold molded.

Lots of good points though. But again, all the stuff Mark is listing, we carry too, minus scuba gear but plus a LOT of additional stuff in our 35' mono.

Boats are boats, in many way similar, in many ways different.

Each and every one has to pick accoring to his/her fancy.
I can certainly see your point, and in your case I'm sure its true. Maybe what I'm really talking about is better ventilation. Our Pretorien has very poor ventilation below, just a forward and salon hatch. No opening ports. We stay very, very dry but not much air flow, so on deck is better for us. But the cockpit is not that big so after a while it gets a bit cramped and the ability to move about more, like you could on a tri or cat would be a big plus for us I think.
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Old 17-05-2011, 22:01   #1503
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I can certainly see your point, and in your case I'm sure its true. Maybe what I'm really talking about is better ventilation. Our Pretorien has very poor ventilation below, just a forward and salon hatch. No opening ports. We stay very, very dry but not much air flow, so on deck is better for us. But the cockpit is not that big so after a while it gets a bit cramped and the ability to move about more, like you could on a tri or cat would be a big plus for us I think.
I see. All our ports are openable and we have made a simple but quite effective (at anchor) wind-scoop for the fore-hatch. A triangular piece of fabric with it's pointed end tied up to the inner forestay.

The shallow draft is the biggest advantage with a multi for me. OTOH this can be obtained with a centerboarder too. The big advantage with a deep monohull is the huge storage space under settees and in the bilge area.
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Old 17-05-2011, 22:02   #1504
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Oriental, where they go to bed at 9pm and go jogging at 6am? You should visit a few more cities in the US my friend...

I'd probably be more confident in the Corribee than the Cherubini

You're right though... 'most' people in the US won't even consider a classic 30 footer for cruising, they think it's gotta be "perfect" in some way or another...

The Ad agencies have this all figured out.... Lucky for us though, this means the cheap 30 footers are cheaper than ever, and the "nice" 25 footers are more expensive than the "cheap" 40 footers

Consumerist economies do have their benefits
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Old 18-05-2011, 07:09   #1505
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Talking Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I can certainly see your point, and in your case I'm sure its true. Maybe what I'm really talking about is better ventilation. Our Pretorien has very poor ventilation below, just a forward and salon hatch. No opening ports. We stay very, very dry but not much air flow, so on deck is better for us. But the cockpit is not that big so after a while it gets a bit cramped and the ability to move about more, like you could on a tri or cat would be a big plus for us I think.
Tough to beat just laying on the trampoline in the shade trying not to spill your beer.

What I do on my RTW Cal25 3rd world cruiser when it's that hot is go below, crank the genset, fire up the AC, turn the refrig up to icemaker, hit the watermaker for a long relaxing soak in the tub, pull a steak out of the freezer, while the inverter makes the blender go round and round for a Pyrat slushie. I then fire up the LRWFS (long range wifi seeker) set on the 1000 mile max range and security decoder to burn thru firewalls so I can catch my daily CF fix. I often start the AIS, forward looking sonar (set on "shipping container", radar, and several other electronic items I barely know the names of. They're interfaced. If it interfaces, I own it. My favorite piece of gear is the remote camera/alarm that shows my anchor set in real time. I really enjoy watching my MS roll over and reset. I don't use the slot. Sometimes I get on the SSB and yak awhile or call Indy on the Sat phone to see how the book is coming. The problem is my budget. Is the $500 a month supposed to include basic needs like food and booze and sex and cigars? Hell, I can spend that much on cigars! I have reread pp 28-36 several times but must have missed the reference to basic physical needs.
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Old 18-05-2011, 07:22   #1506
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pirate Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

$hit.... you've gotta trampoline...
hell.. all I could manage was a hammock between the bows made from an old dockline and a knackered storm jib....
Oh... how the other half live...
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Old 18-05-2011, 07:22   #1507
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Tough to beat just laying on the trampoline in the shade trying not to spill your beer.

What I do on my RTW Cal25 3rd world cruiser when it's that hot is go below, crank the genset, fire up the AC, turn the refrig up to icemaker, hit the watermaker for a long relaxing soak in the tub, pull a steak out of the freezer, while the inverter makes the blender go round and round for a Pyrat slushie. I then fire up the LRWFS (long range wifi seeker) set on the 1000 mile max range and security decoder to burn thru firewalls so I can catch my daily CF fix. I often start the AIS, forward looking sonar (set on "shipping container", radar, and several other electronic items I barely know the names of. They're interfaced. If it interfaces, I own it. My favorite piece of gear is the remote camera/alarm that shows my anchor set in real time. I really enjoy watching my MS roll over and reset. I don't use the slot. Sometimes I get on the SSB and yak awhile or call Indy on the Sat phone to see how the book is coming. The problem is my budget. Is the $500 a month supposed to include basic needs like food and booze and sex and cigars? Hell, I can spend that much on cigars! I have reread pp 28-36 several times but must have missed the reference to basic physical needs.
ROTFL ... sounds like you done some nice stuff with that Cal 25!
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Old 18-05-2011, 09:18   #1508
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Tough to beat just laying on the trampoline in the shade trying not to spill your beer.

What I do on my RTW Cal25 3rd world cruiser when it's that hot is go below, crank the genset, fire up the AC, turn the refrig up to icemaker, hit the watermaker for a long relaxing soak in the tub, pull a steak out of the freezer, while the inverter makes the blender go round and round for a Pyrat slushie. I then fire up the LRWFS (long range wifi seeker) set on the 1000 mile max range and security decoder to burn thru firewalls so I can catch my daily CF fix. I often start the AIS, forward looking sonar (set on "shipping container", radar, and several other electronic items I barely know the names of. They're interfaced. If it interfaces, I own it. My favorite piece of gear is the remote camera/alarm that shows my anchor set in real time. I really enjoy watching my MS roll over and reset. I don't use the slot. Sometimes I get on the SSB and yak awhile or call Indy on the Sat phone to see how the book is coming. The problem is my budget. Is the $500 a month supposed to include basic needs like food and booze and sex and cigars? Hell, I can spend that much on cigars! I have reread pp 28-36 several times but must have missed the reference to basic physical needs.
Niiiiiice! LMAO as well.
You know I know a way you could cut that 500.00 budget. By not paying so much for the sex. Use the blender with more rum and she/He'll (no judgement here) be a lot cheaper. And stay outta the tub during gales and that'll help keep the water in it..
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Old 18-05-2011, 12:08   #1509
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
Tough to beat just laying on the trampoline in the shade trying not to spill your beer.

What I do on my RTW Cal25 3rd world cruiser when it's that hot is go below, crank the genset, fire up the AC, turn the refrig up to icemaker, hit the watermaker for a long relaxing soak in the tub, pull a steak out of the freezer, while the inverter makes the blender go round and round for a Pyrat slushie. I then fire up the LRWFS (long range wifi seeker) set on the 1000 mile max range and security decoder to burn thru firewalls so I can catch my daily CF fix. I often start the AIS, forward looking sonar (set on "shipping container", radar, and several other electronic items I barely know the names of. They're interfaced. If it interfaces, I own it. My favorite piece of gear is the remote camera/alarm that shows my anchor set in real time. I really enjoy watching my MS roll over and reset. I don't use the slot. Sometimes I get on the SSB and yak awhile or call Indy on the Sat phone to see how the book is coming. The problem is my budget. Is the $500 a month supposed to include basic needs like food and booze and sex and cigars? Hell, I can spend that much on cigars! I have reread pp 28-36 several times but must have missed the reference to basic physical needs.
I think you have captured so much of the essence of CF
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Old 21-05-2011, 07:41   #1510
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Ventilation

From the above discussion, it appears that the multi-hull crowd has taken over the thread, and the focus has migrated away from micro-budget cruising.

The justification for the above is deck space and ventilation. SVrodem has shown, as has my 60 years of experience, that ventilation is not accidental, it is the result of considerable thought and a modicum of elbow grease.

Nothing beats the Maurice-Griffiths double coaming hatch for moving air through the boat. Pegasus has 3 of them. They have stayed open the past week as a stationary trough has sat over St. Thomas, doing what they do best, move air through the boat with no water going below.

Next best are dorades. On Pegasus we have 10, thats right ten of them! 8 are 6" cowls and 2 are 5" cowls. Yes, you need at least a 5" cowl to move sufficient air through the boat, and each and every compartment should have two vents. For cold weather each vent should have a blind (made of plexiglass) which can be pushed over the opening to close it, and they should be screened, which you can do by sewing screen material over an embroidery hoop cut down to fit.

Next best are ports. To work in any weather, the spigots must be at least 2" deep and 3" is better. Best are ports in vertical house sides, such as are found on the 28Ft Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter. These should be screened.

To keep the boat cool you need insulation in the deck. This has been mentioned above, and I cannot stress the importance of this enough.

To keep the boat comfortable, you need insulation in the hull. Otherwise in fall and spring cruising, you will have soggy bunks from the condensation making its way down the hull and into your bunk cushions. Needless to say, your lockers will be wet too.

The multi-hull crowd is bitching about monohulls in general, when in fact they are making valid points about the cruiser-racer type of monohull.

They are asserting that monohulls don't have deck space on which to lounge, when in fact properly designed and managed monohulls do.

They assert that monohulls can't cruise shallow water, when in fact, monohulls were expressly designed for such waters, long before multihulls were popular, and they gloss over the fact that their favorite multi hulls can't go to windward because they lack lateral plane, because they don't have boards.

For the man on a micro budget, take a look at the photo of Dovekie. She is about 22 ft. has lee boards, can float in 18" of water, and is available at a micro price. When she pales, there is a ready market for her. At the end of the season you can trailer her home. There are dozens of similar designs one can build, if one's budget requires.

The fact is..... those who must and are cruising on micro-budgets are doing so on mono-hulls, and those who pioneered micro-budget cruising did to on mono-hulls.

Also of critical importance to the micro-budget guy getting started, is a boat he can take home at the end of the cruise or season. The savings in storage costs are phenomenal, as I well know. My previous boat was a Tartan 27, designed by Sparkman and Stephens. with a beam of 8'2", she was narrow enough to trailer across the US from Annapolis to Michigan City WITHOUT A PERMIT, on a rented straight truck! There are many designs in this size (25-29 ft LOA ) which are trailerable and can be towed home behind the family SUV or Pickup Truck. If you are just getting started, start with one of these, or Chameleon, or a Lightning or a Rhodes 19. Get Experience. Join a Yacht Club

Cruising is a contact sport, you cannot learn it while sitting at a computer!


It is also a fact that you cannot achieve the speeds professed by the multi crowd unless you drive the ship, which means carrying all the sail she'll hold.

Also a fact of cruising are squalls at night.

On her first voyage to Chicago, about 15 miles off the Breakwater, Pegasus encountered a frontal boundary and a white squall. I was back at sea after 4.5 years building, so was slow to recognize the danger. I noticed though when the squall hit with 50 knots, because we were rail down under full working rig. Dowsing the yankee was a scene out of Horatio Hornblower, for it was raining UP at me in the bowsprit, which is normally 7 ft above the water. Once dowsed, she righted to her normal heel and we pressed on... for about 30 mins when the wind died all together.

This is the same sort of squall which sank the 48ft multi just south of Martinique last year. The difference between my experience and their experience was 11 tons of ballast in the keel. In consequence I lived to gain experience and voyage around the world, while they found a watery grave.

Regardless of type, a cruising yacht on a micro-budget must provide a safe, comfortable haven for her crew. This means dry bunks, well ventilated cabin, everything in its place, u shaped galley, a place to eat and to navigate.

If you need shallow draft, look at a sharpie.

Regardless remember that you must do without an engine to keep on your budget and your boat must be able to tack upwind through tight channels into anchorages, whether in the Chesapeake, off Provo, in the Bahamas, Florida or elsewhere. This is something the multis don't do very well, and the wharrams don't do at all.

If you must build something, build something like the Bristol Channel Pilot cutter or LapWing, or buy a Cape George 36 hull. Be sure it has a toe rail at least 6" high. Put the chain locker as far aft as possible. Install a bow roller at least 4" in diameter, be sure the chain goes through a pawl and there is a bolt or something else to close the top of the chute so the chain cannot jump out, no matter what.

Below are photos of micro-budget cruisers who visited St. Thomas recently.

INDY
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Old 21-05-2011, 07:54   #1511
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Cigars....

TGZZZ wrote:
" Sometimes I get on the SSB and yak awhile or call Indy on the Sat phone to see how the book is coming. The problem is my budget. Is the $500 a month supposed to include basic needs like food and booze and sex and cigars? Hell, I can spend that much on cigars! I have reread pp 28-36 several times but must have missed the reference to basic physical needs."

You know... I forgot... last time we yakked... to mention where you can get those cigars.... Not Cuba... everyone knows theirs are too expensive... Go to Santiago, DR if in the Atlantic, and to Leyte, PI if in the Pacific. They sell them in every size, by the fist full.. for pennies. As for booze.. stockup on wine in Martinique only $2/ bottle. Get your vodka, gin, etc in St. Thomas only $2 / bottle.

As for sex, import a Russian Girl..

Food... get your beef in the DR and Venezuela. Get the jars and lids in St. Thomas and put it up yourself.. If you prefer, make biltong out of it.

Get your rice and Pasta at CostULess in St. Thomas

Get your tea, lentils, peanut butter, pasta etc from the restaurant supply store adjacent to the Sherwin Williams Store just north of the east end of the runway in St. Thomas.

Get your seafood from the reef or in Martinique

Get your bread in Martinique

Get your milk and butter in Martinique, cheese too.

Clothes in St. Martin.

INDY
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Old 21-05-2011, 08:33   #1512
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

Indy ... you have problems with Searunners and Wharrams and you suggest a Dovekie?
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Old 21-05-2011, 14:16   #1513
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Radar?

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Below are photos of micro-budget cruisers who visited St. Thomas recently.

INDY
That's funny. These "micro-budget" cruisers carry a radar, implying an engine, too. Rather expensive for a micro-budget...

Alain
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Old 21-05-2011, 14:39   #1514
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Re: Cigars....

Quote:
Originally Posted by goprisko View Post
TGZZZ wrote:
" Sometimes I get on the SSB and yak awhile or call Indy on the Sat phone to see how the book is coming. The problem is my budget. Is the $500 a month supposed to include basic needs like food and booze and sex and cigars? Hell, I can spend that much on cigars! I have reread pp 28-36 several times but must have missed the reference to basic physical needs."

You know... I forgot... last time we yakked... to mention where you can get those cigars.... Not Cuba... everyone knows theirs are too expensive... Go to Santiago, DR if in the Atlantic, and to Leyte, PI if in the Pacific. They sell them in every size, by the fist full.. for pennies. As for booze.. stockup on wine in Martinique only $2/ bottle. Get your vodka, gin, etc in St. Thomas only $2 / bottle.

As for sex, import a Russian Girl..

Food... get your beef in the DR and Venezuela. Get the jars and lids in St. Thomas and put it up yourself.. If you prefer, make biltong out of it.

Get your rice and Pasta at CostULess in St. Thomas

Get your tea, lentils, peanut butter, pasta etc from the restaurant supply store adjacent to the Sherwin Williams Store just north of the east end of the runway in St. Thomas.

Get your seafood from the reef or in Martinique

Get your bread in Martinique

Get your milk and butter in Martinique, cheese too.

Clothes in St. Martin.

INDY

Can't load that much on a multi thoough


But a bottle or two.... might fit
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Old 21-05-2011, 20:04   #1515
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Re: Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

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Most US sailors I've met over the last 40yrs. can't seem to get past the IF. Many never leave to go anywhere because the boat is never done. Michael
The best piece of advice I was given came from a seasoned sailor, "Too many people wait until everything is juuuuust right, and never get away from the dock". A friend of mine has cruised the Pacific with about as much gear as I take back packing (and I hike light).
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