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Old 19-02-2015, 18:12   #106
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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That's true - The sweet spot for boat condition is somewhere between dockominium and homeless shelter.

Both boats exist in the same marina.

I look at some of the refits done and wonder why people spend so much time on them. The money for the refit is one thing but the time investment is crazy.

I tip and rolled the topsides paint on my boat. 10 feet away you can't tell.

After splash (last Wednesday) I motored to the dock and got a nice black rub mark from the dock fender.

A boat getting used is gonna look like a used boat...
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Old 19-02-2015, 18:51   #107
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Lots of divergent ideas expressed here, so here come some of mine:

The definition of "seeing the world" is the crux of the equation. If spending two weeks flying from one hotel to another meets your idea of "STW", then sure, it's cheaper than doing it cruising.

But for me, and apparently lots of other CFers STW means having the time and opportunity to immerse yourself into a new place and culture. Months or years are involved, not days. At this point, the cruiser starts to gain in the fiscal race, as several folks have shown.

To artificially add in the costs of maintaining a home ashore to bolster the arguments of the "cruising is expensive" mob just doesn't make sense. Relatively few cruisers of the "I'm seeing the world" variety do maintain a land base, and if they do, it is usually part of their income stream as a rental.

To say that it requires 10% of the purchase price to just keep your boat from deteriorating is BS. 10% of the price of our boat is more than our TOTAL annual expenditures, boat maintenance included. Those of you who have been aboard Insatiable II would likely say that she is maintained in bristol fashion... and we have covered almost 50,000 miles in the 12 years that we have owned her. Have we seen the whole world? Of course not, but we have seen the hell out of our corner of the South Pacific, and that is what we wanted to do.

Another perspective about relative costs is that the majority of boat owners use them very little. For them, NOT seeing the world, or even their local waters FTM is bloody expensive. Each day that one uses their expensive toy reduces the daily cost of ownership, and one does have some control over that. You can insert your own usage rate and use that to answer the OP's question. If you are really "seeing the world" the numbers can reflect reasonable costs.

Finally, since the question was posted here on CF, it is somewhat reasonable to think that most of us own a boat already, whether or not we are cruising in it. Seems to me that with that stipulation one can argue reasonably that only the incremental costs of a cruise should be included when answering the OP's query.

Cheers,

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Old 19-02-2015, 19:11   #108
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

I like to say that cruising can be a fairly inexpensive lifestyle by first world standards but a VERY expensive hobby.


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Old 19-02-2015, 20:38   #109
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

"Fixing the boat in exotic places" will always cost more than you anticipate. For an older boat, we always spent at least $10K/annually to "fix" stuff or keep up with maintenance ourselves. That's in addition to storage/marina fees and normal living fees -- i.e. the $1500/month referenced by others. If you don't do it yourself, it can easily be more. And our boat's small comparatively and 30 years old, but we believe in keeping everything working.
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Old 19-02-2015, 21:15   #110
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Lifestyle, abilities, experience, expectations.

Few really enjoy the cheap route, with a simple boat, and the experience to maintain and repair all of the ships systems.

Then there's timing. Fuel can be pricey, and many don't have the patience to wait on sailing weather for coastal cruising a new location.

Then there's location. The med sounds like a pricey place for the most part.

I'm in Southeast Asia now. Super cheap. Super badass. Love it. I'm on land, and back in Ho Chi Minh after a nice trip to cambodia. Today, off to Mekong delta to spend some new year time with this lovely little Khmer gals family. She is a ruthless negotiator on price. I try to hide whenever she's doing business, pricing is different for,whiteys.

SIM card for the I phone and top,up cost less than a gallon of diesel, and bus to phnom penh from Ho Chi Minh was around $10, decent hotel is $25, but if you're a young backpacker you can easily stay fed and drunk for less than $10 a day. That's just not possible in much of the world.


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Old 19-02-2015, 21:15   #111
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

I'm not a big fan of cities so anchoring in remote places is less expensive than some. My thought is that the land equivalent to boat cruising would be motor home or "caravan". In North America at least there are still places that you can "boondock" where you don't need to pay camp site fees. We will be sticking with the boat for a few more years but at some point we hope to give that a try. From the light research I've done so far it appears that a motor home of equal comfort will be at least a little less expensive to operate than our boat. It would be interesting to hear if caravaning (Is that a word?) in Europe could be done inexpensively...
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Old 19-02-2015, 22:05   #112
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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Finally, since the question was posted here on CF, it is somewhat reasonable to think that most of us own a boat already, whether or not we are cruising in it. Seems to me that with that stipulation one can argue reasonably that only the incremental costs of a cruise should be included when answering the OP's query.

Cheers,

Jim
So a cost comparison between travel methods is to assume that everyone in the discussion already has a cruising boat capable of getting to wherever they'd like to go? That assumption makes the question sort of moot, doesn't it?

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Old 19-02-2015, 22:23   #113
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Voyaging on a cruise ship for several (3 to 4) weeks is almost as expensive (not counting air fare if needed) than operating/professionally-maintaining my 36-foot motor vessel in a year's time (120 engine-hours, 30-days use/operation). I do both. (When figuring costs, that's not considering the cabin-service, prepared-and-served meals, washed dishes/cooking paraphernalia, and live entertainment a cruise ship offers.)





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Old 20-02-2015, 00:41   #114
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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I just looked up the price of a round the world trip on a cruise ship. It was about the same price as my boat, it probably includes port fees, definitely includes provisions and I wouldn't have to do maintenance or night watches.

I'm not saying that I am willing to reconsider, I am just saying that my way isn't necessarily financially efficient.

I tried to convince my partner that backpacking would be cheaper, but he likes sleeping in his own bed, so he would rather work to build a cruising kitty, then take his bed with him.
Where did you find a boat for $50k that includes room for the cabin boy and a freezer to make ice for your nightly 300lb ice carving. Not to mention where to you lay out the 100' long midnight buffet?

Again, people keep comparing apples to oranges. To get the cruise ship lifestyle you would need something on the order of a mega yacht and I guarantee the cruise would be as cheap.
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Old 20-02-2015, 01:30   #115
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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So a cost comparison between travel methods is to assume that everyone in the discussion already has a cruising boat capable of getting to wherever they'd like to go? That assumption makes the question sort of moot, doesn't it?

You have to get your head wrapped around depreciation rather than cost of the boat.

Buy a "Bristol" boat for 100k. Let it deteriorate and sell for 70k - your cost is 30k.

Rather buy or "make" the Bristol $100k boat. Put $4-500 a month into keeping it Bristol and sell it for $100k.

Your cost is $4-500 a month in "rent" or hotel room fees.

Yes - I get your point that not many people have $100k to park in a boat. But really that's how it works.

Get a 50k or 40k boat - they are out there.

Pay $5k for a cruise and the money is gone for sure. Pay for a hotel room and the money is gone for sure.
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Old 20-02-2015, 05:50   #116
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Fascinating thread. My wife and I have had many of these same discussions / debates that have been held here.

I have a long history of sailing - mainly 'around the cans' in the South of the UK, whilst my wife (who is Italian) is new to sailing. We were very fortunate 6 years ago, when my brother bought a Tayana 48 in Thailand with the intention of going cruising. However the financial crisis meant that he was unable to sell his company and so had to keep working. It resulted in my wife and I being the only people that really used the boat, but were only able to do that for 4 - 5 weeks of the year, as I was also full time employed.

To my surprise, my wife really liked sailing, not just 'crusing' but the challenge of getting the boat to sail well and to navigate. It taught us 3 things :

1. That we would not buy a boat until I retired and we could use it for 5 -6 months of the year at least. We wanted to sail in the good weather periods which of course tend to be also the peak tourist periods, so flights backwards and forwards were expensive. Plus we had lots of problems with having the boat looked after when we were not there. So it would only be affordable for us if we could utilise the boat for long periods, minimise the number of trips backwards and forwards from the boat, and perform most of the maintenance our selves.

2. That sailing is more then just being on vacation and seeing beautiful & interesting places, it is also about learning new skills. We work well together, having just finished a building extension where we did most of the construction work ourselves (mixing and pouring concrete floors for example). We are really looking forward to gaining the knowledge and the feeling of accomplishment from learning all the skills involved in sailing, to the best of our abilities.

3. That owning a boat is not cheap ! However, neither are the alternatives. We chartered a boat in the Carribean for 2 weeks and that cost us close to the equivalent of a years marina costs in Turkey. We have also of course had flight & hotel based holidays which are also expensive in the peak season.

I know that we can now travel in the off peak seasons, which dramatically reduce the costs, and we have spent 5 weeks in Marbella, Spain in November/ December and 2 weeks in Marmaris, Turkey in January for example. But it is no way as enjoyable as going when the holiday seasons have started. Many hotels, restaurants and shops are closed, and weather is bad. The days are short, and cold biting winds are not conducive to hiking in the hills, or even walks along the beach.

So we are now in the process of buying a catamaran and will have the survey performed in 2 weeks time.

Are we doing this because it is cheaper then living else where for 5-6 months of the year ? Yes and no !

I don't think that it is really much more expensive then flights / hotels / rented apartments during the seasons. Keeping the money in the bank here in France will get us 2.4% in interest- so not a lot to lose there. Chartering through the peak seasons is also pretty expensive.
We also looked at buying a house in Spain. But community charges can be fierce (my brother is paying 400 euros a month for a 2 bed town house for example).
But more importantly, we are also doing it because we love sailing and being by the sea, and want to grow as people.
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Old 20-02-2015, 06:39   #117
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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But more importantly, we are also doing it because we love sailing and being by the sea, and want to grow as people.
Hmm...... Im paying a lot less in community charges in Spain.
Anyhows.

Marina South/South east Spain, including elec/water/wifi/toilet/shower. all in less than 5000EU a year. If you join MDL marinas, they have a discount scheme for Marinas in the Med.

Leaves a massive cruising area. Morocco, Canaries, Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Balearics, Corsica, Sicily etc and beyond.

Its not the world..... but its half of it. You can afford to leave the boat at these prices.
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Old 20-02-2015, 07:04   #118
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

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You have to get your head wrapped around depreciation rather than cost of the boat.

Buy a "Bristol" boat for 100k. Let it deteriorate and sell for 70k - your cost is 30k.

Rather buy or "make" the Bristol $100k boat. Put $4-500 a month into keeping it Bristol and sell it for $100k.

Your cost is $4-500 a month in "rent" or hotel room fees.

Yes - I get your point that not many people have $100k to park in a boat. But really that's how it works.

Get a 50k or 40k boat - they are out there.

Pay $5k for a cruise and the money is gone for sure. Pay for a hotel room and the money is gone for sure.

I think you make some very good points, but you're neglecting selling fees, carrying costs before and after your cruise, and one or two "gotcha" upgrades or repairs that blow your economy of scale.

If you can manage purchasing the boat the day you're leaving on your trip, keep the money put into it to a minimum, and sell it the day you get back, and do it without using a broker, I believe your strategy might work, though you might have to discount the boat rather substantially in order to sell it in one day.

Pay $5K in slip fees at any point during your boat ownership, and that money is gone for sure. Most of the money you put into personalizing the boat and making it safe and comfortable for you is going to be gone also.

I do think cruising can be an efficient means of travel with a lot of planning and a little luck, but I also think it's very easy to overlook a lot of the costs. I also think the more typical experience may be to buy a boat at 50 or 100K, put 35K into it, and sell it for a little less than what it was purchased for.

I think in theory it's very easy to overlook some of the costs when doing this calculation.
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Old 20-02-2015, 07:05   #119
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

And I've stayed in a pile of Tea houses in the Himalayas that don't charge you for a room (private room with beds) as long as you pay them the courtesy of buying your dinner from them. Which is maybe a couple of dollars for some rice beans and tea.

When I was in my early 20s I travelled North America on a sport bike. Used the bike and a tarp to create a lean too. Cost. Maybe $15/day for gas, $15/day for food and $15/day for cheap wine.

This is a great way to sea the world. These are centuries old tea houses high in the Himalayas, you can walk hundreds of kilometres and never have your view ruined by something as unsightly as a road. If you want to get drunk, spend a dollar on a pitcher of home brew rice wine. It's the Himalayas, so other diversions are available cheap too.

I think if you want to experience high alpine- tea house trekking is the way to go. If you want to experience living off the land- spend $30k for a farm on Ometepe. If you want to experience lakes, islands and the wilderness of the ocean- by a sailboat and go cruising.

It's just comes down to what you want.

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Old 20-02-2015, 07:38   #120
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Re: Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

Europe.

I can stay in most European countries in private apartment for 2 for between 4-600EU a month.

I can fly there from the UK from 30-70EU,
My insurance is 50EU a year.

If I stay in an immaculate private room instead of apartment, its from 10-20EU a night.

If there is more than 2 people, kids etc, then the cost comparison will have to be compared.

Example: If I fly to:

Malta from this Sunday for 7 days,From London, I get flight, 3 star hotel and breakfast on a deal for 164 Sterling.

If I fly to Mallorca: same deal, 185 Sterling.

If I fly to France: same deal, 200 Sterling. (2 star hotel)

So as a single person, I can do Europe for 12 months in a different country every month in an apartment for between 4-9K Euro plus bus rides plus food and expenses. For two add 25% more.

The money once spent is spent. No upfront costs or maintenance or ongoing repairs. No responsibilities. Its not even backpacking. And Im talking about EUROPE....... not just one country in it.

AIRBNB is your friend.

Want to do the world? I have bought several of these Air tickets when Ive been doing multiple trips. 1500 Sterling....(and cheaper) I can also get deals on hotel rooms through airmiles and special CCs. Side flights are cheaper too because your closer...... 3 years ago I did Singapore-Hong Kong-Philippines-Singapore for 300 Sterling.

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