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Old 30-08-2015, 18:59   #31
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Re: AIS benefits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshe View Post
It should be understood, that the ships are being monitored and tracked by land bases, and other shipping. Their track is being recorded 24/7. If there is a collision at sea, there is instant proof of who was the stand on vessel and who was not. This makes the Masters of these vessels very scrupulous and careful.
Sorry, but I think your imagination may have gotten the better of you, there... Please don't take that statement as a "Personal Attack", OK?

;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshe View Post
If you want to know where I am at the moment. Go to marinetraffic.com -vessels-all-Banshe.

James
While marinetraffic may indeed have fixed your present position accurately for the time being, as soon as you begin moving again, all bets are off... Their reporting of your position and movements may, or may not be, occurring in real time. You appear to be ascribing capabilities to these "land stations" that don't necessarily exist, or to which there is any sort of uniformity worldwide...
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Old 30-08-2015, 19:14   #32
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Re: AIS benefits

Rustic Charm, et al,

Oh goodness....all this uproar over a bit of humor??
I apologized for it already, and you all wish to go on about it more?
And, the real issue seems to get ignored??
That is that there was misinformation about how the AIS system works, which I was trying to politely clarify...

If you think I was being "picky", that was not my intent....but, when information is posted that is in error, is it not good to correct / clarify it??


But, okay....I'll oblige again here and add more clarifications...


I'm not looking for a fight, and am not replying to my own posting????
Not sure how you see that, but here's the straight fact:

If you look at the 3rd to last sentence of the original post, from "Banshe", you will see his words that I quoted exactly (and I used quotation marks to delineate that as a quote)....sorry I didn't hit the quote button, but was multi-tasking with family (there are other things beyond CF, you know)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshe View Post
To not have one in my opinion is foolishness and is placing unnecessary danger to themselves and an unfair burden on the Masters of large ships.

If this quotation is not adequate enough....how about reading his entire post again....'cause this is what I was really trying to correct / his misinformation of how the AIS system works...

And, if you all wish to scold me again, please have at it....I got thick skin!!
But, if you just disagree with me, no worries....we are all entitled to our opinions....none more or less valid...

And, finally, if you're looking for the quote, I'll add bold-type to that sentence that I quoted, so that you can see it easier...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshe View Post
G'day,


Before leaving Western Australia almost one year ago I purchased a AIS class B transponder. I had already purchased an AIS receiver only the year before, but within a week of buying the AIS receiver only I realized I'd made a huge mistake. You don't so much want to see other ships, as you want them to see you! The transponder does both.

AIS would have to be one of the biggest breakthroughs for marine safety since the invention of radar seventy odd years ago. Land stations have popped up like mushrooms all over the world giving amazing coverage. Sometimes up to one hundred miles off shore. Signals are also relayed on from ship to ship so as long as they are within fifty odd miles of each-other. I have been able to see ships over four hundred miles at times in busy shipping lanes. And it's only going to get better.

While radar still has it's uses, very few watch-keepers aboard big ships monitor it continuously. They may glance at it now and again, but AIS they constantly monitor 24/7. In the 15,000 miles I've traveled this past year I would have had at least six occasions when the CPA (Closest Point of Approach) has been within a few meters of a ship heading my way. I am transmitting my course speed etc which they can see. But most importantly I'm transmitting SAILING VESSEL. On all these six occasions the ships, some 330 metres in length, have altered course at a distance of least two miles, and missed me by at least one mile. In respect I try to hold the straightest course possible.

It should be understood, that the ships are being monitored and tracked by land bases, and other shipping. Their track is being recorded 24/7. If there is a collision at sea, there is instant proof of who was the stand on vessel and who was not. This makes the Masters of these vessels very scrupulous and careful.

In summary: Anyone considering going more than a few miles offshore would be very wise to spend six hundred dollars plus and buy one and install it. To not have one in my opinion is foolishness and is placing unnecessary danger to themselves and an unfair burden on the Masters of large ships.

If you want to know where I am at the moment. Go to marinetraffic.com -vessels-all-Banshe.

James



I do hope this clarifies things better....

Fair winds..

John
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Old 30-08-2015, 19:18   #33
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Re: AIS benefits

Folks, I think the original idea .... Before this thread took on its drift.... Was AIS and its merit both as receive only and as Class B transponder providing both in and out.

I believe AIS to be a solid adjunct to Radar AND an able bodied sailor standing watch.

There are so many benefits to both sides and the original post didn't slam radar nor a watch on deck.
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Old 31-08-2015, 02:06   #34
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Re: AIS benefits

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
Rustic Charm, et al,

Oh goodness....all this uproar over a bit of humor??
I apologized for it already, and you all wish to go on about it more?
And, the real issue seems to get ignored??
That is that there was misinformation about how the AIS system works, which I was trying to politely clarify...

If you think I was being "picky", that was not my intent....but, when information is posted that is in error, is it not good to correct / clarify it??


But, okay....I'll oblige again here and add more clarifications...


I'm not looking for a fight, and am not replying to my own posting????
Not sure how you see that, but here's the straight fact:

If you look at the 3rd to last sentence of the original post, from "Banshe", you will see his words that I quoted exactly (and I used quotation marks to delineate that as a quote)....sorry I didn't hit the quote button, but was multi-tasking with family (there are other things beyond CF, you know)


If this quotation is not adequate enough....how about reading his entire post again....'cause this is what I was really trying to correct / his misinformation of how the AIS system works...

And, if you all wish to scold me again, please have at it....I got thick skin!!
But, if you just disagree with me, no worries....we are all entitled to our opinions....none more or less valid...

And, finally, if you're looking for the quote, I'll add bold-type to that sentence that I quoted, so that you can see it easier...
I do hope this clarifies things better....

Fair winds..

John
My oath john, your a touch temperamental I apologise to you, you did quote him accurately. I did not see it. And I agree with your pointing that out then. the rest of your post well
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Old 31-08-2015, 02:42   #35
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
After 6 days of navigating in fog, often 1/10 of a NM visibility or less, I have a couple of observations. One is that AIS is great. Knowing the name and type of vessel, CPA and all the rest, is helpful. More than once I was hailed by, or hailed, another vessel by name to make arrangements.

Downside: It used to be you'd just monitor, or turn to avoid, all those "blips" on radar, passing without ever seeing or speaking to each other. Now, if you both have AIS, one of you is likely to feel the obligation to call the other and make passing arrangements. It is reassuring when it happens once or twice. It can get tedious after a while. Yes, I know you're there. Yes, my two radars and my AIS are all telling me we're going to pass port to port with plenty of room to spare. You have a nice day too.

I fail to see the downside. Constant communication during times of low visibility is anything but tedious.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
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Old 31-08-2015, 02:51   #36
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
I fail to see the downside. Constant communication during times of low visibility is anything but tedious.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
The only downside I can see is what I pointed out in an earlier post, it's when people install only the AIS and forgo radar and sustaining a vigilant watch... thinking that AIS is somehow a new and superior technology which renders the other two unnecessary. They depend almost totally on the AIS alarm warning them of others.... but AIS is far from foolproof. Many of the boats they will cross paths with, don't even have AIS.

Ken
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Old 31-08-2015, 06:02   #37
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
The only downside I can see is what I pointed out in an earlier post, it's when people install only the AIS and forgo radar and sustaining a vigilant watch... thinking that AIS is somehow a new and superior technology which renders the other two unnecessary. They depend almost totally on the AIS alarm warning them of others.... but AIS is far from foolproof. Many of the boats they will cross paths with, don't even have AIS.

Ken
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Old 31-08-2015, 06:21   #38
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post

Lots of responders keep talking about the vast number of targets; too many spots on the screen etc. The Watchmate 850 has great filtering for removing targets that don't matter. Any proper AIS should do this or it will be a pain in the butt.
So, when every recreational vessel on the water is transmitting AIS, I wonder which parameters those on the bridge of an 700' car carrier running up Chesapeake Bay on the 4th of July, or a ship entering Narragansett Bay in heavy fog on a busy summer weekend, will employ to filter out or remove those targets that "don't matter"?

;-)

Hopefully, a more sophisticated means of filtering, than simply eliminating all Class B targets, which some commercial vessels, in certain situations, have been doing for some time...
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Old 31-08-2015, 06:45   #39
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Re: AIS benefits

AIS Benefits ...........

As a sailor that sails mostly along the coast (20 miles or so from land) during the day, I never thought much about AIS as a need but rather something nice to have.

All that changed on a recent trip at night coming back across the lower bay. Coming into the Hampton Roads area from the North at night changes everything.

You are coming in from the dark bay then you slowly enter this busy area and there are lights everywhere. Green ones, red ones, flashing green, flashing red, buoy horns, white lights, lights from cars, street lights, safety lights that blind you, and also little red (and green) running lights on container ships that seem to ghost along silently.

I was looking to line up on the double green lights in my home creek.

Even though I checked the shipping channel repeatedly as I approached, I missed a ship. I know it seems strange. He was behind my sails for the last mile or so but still you would have thought I would have seen him.

He called a boat approaching on the radio. (the he was a local pilot I'm thinking) I was like damn. A quick look verified he was talking to me. The PO had mounted one of those tubular radar reflectors on an upper shroud so I'm sure they had been monitoring me for miles. I went around his stern, through his wake, and marveled at the size of the thing as I usually do when near a ship of this size which happens quite a lot in this area

If I had an AIS I would have "seen" him easily an hour before I was close. If I was cruising a lot or doing lots of night sailing, I'd get an AIS (at least a receiver) now.
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Old 31-08-2015, 06:55   #40
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post

The PO had mounted one of those tubular radar reflectors on an upper shroud so I'm sure they had been monitoring me for miles.
While he may have seen you on radar, I doubt your reflector was much of a contributing factor...

You may as well toss that thing in a dumpster, every test I've ever seen has shown those Mobri-style reflectors to be next to worthless, almost right up there with the "Radar Flag"...

;-)
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Old 31-08-2015, 06:59   #41
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
While he may have seen you on radar, I doubt your reflector was much of a contributing factor...

You may as well toss that thing in a dumpster, every test I've ever seen has shown those Mobri-style reflectors to be next to worthless, almost right up there with the "Radar Flag"...

;-)
Really? So what is a better type?
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Old 31-08-2015, 07:06   #42
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I suppose that's a good reason to transmit. Luckily our Canadian water cops seem less enamoured with randomly stopping boats without cause. In all my years of boating on the GL I've been "safety inspected" once.

I did have a close encounter with our MIB (RCMP and border service in a joint scary boat), but it turns out they only came over to inquire about our wind vane. The officer was a fellow sailer and just wanted to know how often we used the Aries. Too funny...


Why go fast, when you can go slow
I see it a bit differently, I used to work for the Feds and in the years immediately following 9/11 I know we stopped everyone we could find, because I was one of the black shirted %$#&'s doing the stopping and "safety checks". Canadian authorities might not be as benign as you believe, although I agree they've softened up some over the last 14 years.

There's a reason I'm paranoid about AIS use!

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Old 31-08-2015, 07:15   #43
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
While he may have seen you on radar, I doubt your reflector was much of a contributing factor...

You may as well toss that thing in a dumpster, every test I've ever seen has shown those Mobri-style reflectors to be next to worthless, almost right up there with the "Radar Flag"...

;-)
Jon,

You keep writing this, I don't know where you heard it, but it's simply NOT TRUE.

I just took a picture of the radar image in my anchorage a minute ago. Those two big dots at 11 and 1 o'clock are two Oyster yachts 56 and 62ft, each equipped with one of the radar defectors you disparage. The two smaller images near the bottom of the screen and close to my boat at 5 o'clock, are two catamarans which are not equipped with the radar deflecting device. All four yachts are roughly the same size. The two ahead of me with the deflector.... The two behind without.

Ken
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Old 31-08-2015, 07:22   #44
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Re: AIS benefits

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
I see it a bit differently, I used to work for the Feds and in the years immediately following 9/11 I know we stopped everyone we could find, because I was one of the black shirted %$#&'s doing the stopping and "safety checks".
Good Lord!!
Now I remember you!!

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Old 31-08-2015, 07:25   #45
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Re: AIS benefits

Jon,

Here's a picture of the boats ahead of me that are equipped with radar deflectors.
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