Thoughts on What Would Be the Ultimate Lithium Upgrade for $10k

[SV Allie Rose]

Seeking this communities input and ideas for the following scenario:

If starting from SCRATCH - with a $10,000 budget - what would the electrical system that you would design contain? Every penny that is not spent on components, batteries, wiring, or other electrical hardware will disapear before your eyes. What would you purchase?

Assuming that your ultimate goal is to circumnavigate the Americas, and that you would already have approximately 200 Watts of solar and a Honda 2000 (or similar) generator that you can use to recharge your batteries.

I know that there is LOTS of information that is being left out, that many people would want to know before answering this question. I am intentionally leaving this information out (such as desired amp hour of the battery bank, daily draw, autopilot needs, inverter needs, etc.) in an attempt to leave as blank of a canvas for those providing responses as possible.

In addition to listing the components and manufactures thereof, if you're able to also list why you've selected what you have chosen for the system, even better.

Asking for the purpose of collecting a sampling of opinions as I begin to put together a list of everything that I will need to purchase myself as I swap out my current AGM system. I greatly appreciate those of you who take the time to write back.

[SV Confianza]

Spend most of the budget on a new solar arch and more panels so you can actually take advantage =)

$2000 on LiTime batteries
$1000 on balmar xt 170 alternator and balmar regulator
$500 on fuses, cables, and bus bars
$6500 on solar arch

[Island Time O25]

If you're on a tight budget it would make sense to DIY a solar arch over the stern. That's what I did about 7-8 years ago. I found a perfectly fitting SS arch at a local boat junk yard for under $200 and had a "boatyard guy" help me installing it for another $200. While at it I found a hard top off of a power boat on craigslist for all of $500 which I also installed at the time of installing the arch. That brought the total for both, including some add'l hardware and whatnot to a whopping $1,000.

Also about that time I got 4X110W panels from some place in Miami at $90/each. And a PWM charge controller for about $80, which I had to replace since then. The 440W of solar make all the difference but eventually I plan go to 4X300W and to 6 batteries instead of 4 now so I can run every electric doodah without a care.

[Benz]

I'd invest in an Efoy methanol fuel-cell charger.
The math has been done regarding efficiency VS gas or diesel generation in another thread, but for the sake of silence, ease of maintenance, and having 24/7 battery maintenance, rain or shine, sailing or not, I'd go to that over a genset any day.
If I ever go to the dark side and install an electrical system in my boat, the Efoy will feature in it.

[jcapo]

If money is plentiful:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-282406.html

And check with your insurance company re: Lithium batteries.

[hjohnson]

I would do what we did, build out a fully integrated power system in the Victron ecosystem. We’ve had that for two years on our sailboat, and it works fantastic; we never worry about power or fiddle with it.

Our BMS (REC ABMS) talks to the victron computer (Cerbo GX), which in turn manages the solar power and Inverter/charger to match the limits imposed by the battery. Additionally, our Alternator is integrated through a WS500 so that we absolutely do not need to worry about a disconnect damaging the alternator or our electronics.

Additionally, we’ve added a bunch of other monitoring to the system (tank levels, bilge level, temperature/humidity/barometric pressure) so we can properly keep an eye on the boat when we’re not aboard. We can also hit up our instrumentation remotely (via SignalK) so we can check on the wind and other stuff before heading out, or during a storm).

It’s a fantastic setup, and I’m really glad we pulled it off.

For reference, we wound up with 460Ah of LFP, a 2kVA inverter/charger, and a much safer electrical system overall. Plus, thanks to the galvanic isolator, our zincs last twice as long. We’re also now less of a risk to the rest of the marina due to the main ELCI at our shore power inlet.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by SV Allie Rose

Seeking this communities input and ideas for the following scenario:

If starting from SCRATCH - with a $10,000 budget - what would the electrical system that you would design contain? Every penny that is not spent on components, batteries, wiring, or other electrical hardware will disapear before your eyes. What would you purchase?

Assuming that your ultimate goal is to circumnavigate the Americas, and that you would already have approximately 200 Watts of solar and a Honda 2000 (or similar) generator that you can use to recharge your batteries.

I know that there is LOTS of information that is being left out, that many people would want to know before answering this question. I am intentionally leaving this information out (such as desired amp hour of the battery bank, daily draw, autopilot needs, inverter needs, etc.) in an attempt to leave as blank of a canvas for those providing responses as possible.

In addition to listing the components and manufactures thereof, if you're able to also list why you've selected what you have chosen for the system, even better.

Asking for the purpose of collecting a sampling of opinions as I begin to put together a list of everything that I will need to purchase myself as I swap out my current AGM system. I greatly appreciate those of you who take the time to write back.

First some questions:
- gas or full electric galley
- What’s your daily AH use
- what engine with what alternator, how old
- DIY or professional install
- how much space for solar

DIY fits all.
1) 300AH Winston cell house with REC or new JK BMS plus DIY EVE 280/304 cells or Li-time no parallel cells for capacity you totally need. 300AH is enough for every bluewater cruiser to survive 2 days if you limit to minimum in case of eg total solar gone or other Desaster. So 300AH the rolce Royce of lithium is just good enough, Rest capacity due to price. The Winston with those 2 BMS can also start the engine, an Li-time simply can‘t.
2) BMV712 Victron as last borderline+total monitoring of DC use
3) Raspi with cerbo installation
4) 115A Mitzi or 125A Valeo alternator with internal temp control and 6 rip serpentine belt. This connected to a Victron argofet, output 1 goes to starter of your choice/present. Output 2 goes to a disconnect relay steered by REC and battery monitor and disconnects at 13.8V=when full or Desaster. Last 5% better done with solar. Simple, cheap and reliable 70-80A charge.
5) inverter charger combo Studer XTM 12/3000 for 230V, reason no Victron as Studer is more sturdy being a real low frequency inverter and has 9kw peak that also starts an AC or an 230V dive compressor which a Victron 12/3000 multi simply can‘t. The Victron dynamic current limiter has also limits…and Studer has all a Victron has and NO 1000 adapters to program your equipment, all can be done by Studer remote panel. It also connects to a Victron cerbo.
Well if 120V boat a Victron multi as Studer is jet not available in 120V.
6) rest of money into solar arch with fixed bifacial panels, per panel 1 MPPT either Victron or Studer.

[dutch-barge]

1) as much solar as possible
2) Victron equipment. ( it keeps on ticking and 10 years warranty and open source system)
quattro, so you can auto start your generator
MMPT's for the solar
BMV/ shunt etc
Gerbo for management. ( with the VRM website, you can also program the gerbo as alarm system, shore power off, temp too high etv for free !!)z
3) Li batteries from eco-lithium.eu.

[brazenarticle]

As mentioned above, go with Victron controllers, charger/inverters/shunts etc. The Victron gear all works well and it all works together with a central Cerbo computer ( or Raspi running Venus).
Peter Kennedy at PKYS.com in Annapolis is a Victron dealer and specializes in mobile and marine power systems. He would be my first call for advice.
Brand of the solar panel doesn't matter as long as they are reputable, same with the batteries. I use and recommend batteries from Sunfunkits.com in Baton Rouge, LA. They build the batteries or supply the components as kits. They use quality gear, you can open the batteries to know what you've got, upgrade or repair if ever needed. Most importantly they pick up the phone if you need to call for advice.
Check out the s/v Jedi thread on modern Lithium setups if you have not been through it already.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-282406.html

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by Benz

I'd invest in an Efoy methanol fuel-cell charger.
The math has been done regarding efficiency VS gas or diesel generation in another thread, but for the sake of silence, ease of maintenance, and having 24/7 battery maintenance, rain or shine, sailing or not, I'd go to that over a genset any day.
If I ever go to the dark side and install an electrical system in my boat, the Efoy will feature in it.

I have an 80w eFoy and would never buy another unless it was for a tiny boat sailing in a small defined area.

The fuel cells inside are just not happy unless running almost all the time. Running them all the time quickly makes output decline. Exposure to minus deg - degrades them fast unless you have them running throughout the winter season. Replacement of fuel cells costs around 50+% of device SRP.

And then you will find problems getting eFoy methanol in many places. Either not in stock (aka wait for 3-12 weeks for shipping) or can't get past border control and import restrictions unless there is an eFoy retailer in the country with allowance for restricted substance import.

Importing Methyl Alcohol (methanol) into a sharia compliant country can be a challenge that requires some negotiations like handing over a bottle of whisky for the privilege. (that is what I had to do for importing quite pure isopropyl alcohol). And it is not the chemical composition that is the problem for customs officers. It is the mere mention of word Alcohol.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by kaz911

I have an 80w eFoy and would never buy another unless it was for a tiny boat sailing in a small defined area.

The fuel cells inside are just not happy unless running almost all the time. Running them all the time quickly makes output decline. Exposure to minus deg - degrades them fast unless you have them running throughout the winter season. Replacement of fuel cells costs around 50+% of device SRP.

And then you will find problems getting eFoy methanol in many places. Either not in stock (aka wait for 3-12 weeks for shipping) or can't get past border control and import restrictions unless there is an eFoy retailer in the country with allowance for restricted substance import.

Importing Methyl Alcohol (methanol) into a sharia compliant country can be a challenge that requires some negotiations like handing over a bottle of whisky for the privilege. (that is what I had to do for importing quite pure isopropyl alcohol). And it is not the chemical composition that is the problem for customs officers. It is the mere mention of word Alcohol.

This is good to know: thank you. My experience was only for a brief time with a new unit. If I need one in future, it will only be for a brief time with a new unit (very specific voyage with very specific mission). For my usual long-term crusing, non-electric is still sufficient for me.

[Pete7]

$10k will disappear quickly, but yes to a decent sized LifePO4 (LFP) domestic bank charged by lots of solar as already suggested. LFP will also charge quickly from the Honda way more so that lead acid. Been there running the Honda whilst the current drops off as the batteries are full. Much faster with LFP.

The second hand arch was also our solution. £200 from a boatyard. Now supports 590w of solar.

Rather than high end LFP charging components and complex BMSs, I would invest in AIS, new VHF and ariel with good quality cable, RG8x perhaps. Also a 2kW inverter to for mix of gas and electric cooking to supplement and save your gas supplies.

You are also going to need reliable offshore forecasts. Iridium Go is being taken over by the likes of Starlink, so second hand units becoming available. Dreadfully slow but that doesn't matter downloading weather charts.

A good autopilot will also be needed. RM perhaps.

Doesn't all have to be new, just takes time to find good quality second hand items that work properly, or buy at the right time of the year. Order new sails in late Autumn / early winter and they will bite your hand off for work. Try that in the Spring and forget it or pay a premium. Same for many electrical items like spare Victron MPPT, saving 40% buying in December from Amazon as a retailer reduces their stock.

I would prioritise high quality new sails over any thoughts of stuff like a water maker, which your budget won't support, so use containers for water. Sails are going to be your engine. Keep the old ones for the two trips through the equator to save the new ones from sun damage.

This is what £200 bought us which with modifications over time became the second picture.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Pete7

$10k will disappear quickly, but yes to a decent sized LifePO4 (LFP) domestic bank charged by lots of solar as already suggested. LFP will also charge quickly from the Honda way more so that lead acid. Been there running the Honda whilst the current drops off as the batteries are full. Much faster with LFP.

The second hand arch was also our solution. £200 from a boatyard. Now supports 590w of solar.

Rather than high end LFP charging components and complex BMSs, I would invest in AIS, new VHF and ariel with good quality cable, RG8x perhaps. Also a 2kW inverter to for mix of gas and electric cooking to supplement and save your gas supplies.

You are also going to need reliable offshore forecasts. Iridium Go is being taken over by the likes of Starlink, so second hand units becoming available. Dreadfully slow but that doesn't matter downloading weather charts.

A good autopilot will also be needed. RM perhaps.

Doesn't all have to be new, just takes time to find good quality second hand items that work properly, or buy at the right time of the year. Order new sails in late Autumn / early winter and they will bite your hand off for work. Try that in the Spring and forget it or pay a premium. Same for many electrical items like spare Victron MPPT, saving 40% buying in December from Amazon as a retailer reduces their stock.

Pete

Exactly 2nd high quality stuff is a very good option to get a very good system cheap without the use of some Chinese stuff. Especially the whole inverter charger combo and MPPTs you get lately a lot of 24V units for a very good price because people upgrading to 48V in offgrid or ESS…I got my 2 Studer 24V XTM24-3500 for a steal of 850Euro per piece, 3 years old with still 7 years warranty transferred to me because the owners went to a 48V system as old batteries died and they got 48V rack batteries. New that would be 3000Euro for one, could have had 2x 24V multi 3000 instead for 700 the piece.
Due to EV crises prices should drop for lithium cells too.
Saw 280AH EVE A grade for below 100Euro a cell…

[FlyingScot]

The frist $10K for the arch and panels. Save up for the next $10-15K for LiFePO4, MPPT's, wire, class T fuses, busbars, tools to install properly, etc.

As they say $10k ain't what it used to be...

[cottonsail]

My arch and hardware was under $150. I used 2" 6061 T6 aluminum tubing for the main supports. That I got from an aluminum supplier. All the bracing was purchased from Garhauer. The panels and Outback MTTP controller were purchased from Sun Electric in Miami Fl. So for a 500 watt system total cost was $1156.