Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-12-2014, 07:35   #1
Registered User
 
Bill_E's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Mexico and Puerto Rico
Boat: Sunbeam, 37, Ziamar
Posts: 300
Rewiring with Upgrades

I'm in the process of planning and purchasing parts to redo a lot of my electrical charging system. Hopefully, I'll get some answers about simple questions first and more detailed ones as I go along. There are a bunch of really experienced (and well trained) folks here that I trust.

I have a Xantrex Freedom 30 inverter/charger for shore power charging. It is connected to a Link 2000. I have three solar panels into a BZ MPPT controller. And, a Balmar series 6 alternator through a Balmar ARS-5 controller. Finally, my house bank is 3 12v Optima Blue top (D34M) batteries and my starting battery was the same but it just failed and I'll be replacing it as part of this work. I was convinced to buy a Balmar Digital Duo Charger a couple of years ago with the idea that I'd put it in to improve the charging system. So, that will be part of the final design.

The first question is: Should I wire all of the charging devices to the house bank and then only charge the starting battery through the Duo Charger? There seems to be some differences of opinion with some people charging the starting battery with their shore power charger as well, when on shore power.

Second: I am probably going to have to use at least one positive buss bar to distribute the power from my house bank. And, I will probably need two negative buss bars (connected together with 2/0 cable?) to be able to fit things into available geometries. I've seen buss bars made by Blue Sea (https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...sBars/PowerBar and https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat.../PowerBar_1000) I think I'll only need 4 studs per Buss. And I've seen Marinco Buss Bars (Busbars | marinco) I kind of like the Marinco 5 stud version 'cause it gives a little expandability. But does anyone have any experience or suggestions on these?

This is just the start. I'll be drawing my wiring diagram soon and will post it for comments and corrections.

Thanks to everyone in advance. I hope this thread can help others who might add or rework some of their wiring.

Bill
__________________
Don't believe everything you think
Bill_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 08:09   #2
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

Wire the house bank first through a suitable fuse/holder, then to 1 positive buss.

Use only 1 negative buss.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 08:49   #3
Registered User
 
Bill_E's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Mexico and Puerto Rico
Boat: Sunbeam, 37, Ziamar
Posts: 300
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

I had thought about the fuse. Right now I have a terminal fuse on the house bank (https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191) but on the rewire I will have room to put a Class T fuse if I want (https://www.bluesea.com/products/550..._-_225_to_400A) I'm not sure if there is an advantage. I have a Class T fuse on the DC output of my Freedom 30 Charger.

I'd obviously prefer a single ground buss but I was thinking that the start and house batteries should have a common ground and to do that I'd have two busses and connect them with a pretty hefty cable. It's a question of getting lots of wires from here to there or grounding in two places and then connecting the two busses with a single cable.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think
Bill_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 09:11   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,634
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

The solar, charger, and alt should go to the house bank. The duo will charge the engine bank

You can't leave the alt on the start bank because the duo has limited current. You're not going to get much to the house bank from the alt that way. Where as the duo is enough to charge a start battery

Your inverter / charger should have its own t class fuse (probably 400a for the 3k?) near the battery and switch. Right from the battery with 4/0 cable. Or from a. Unfused bus next to battery. it should not be going through your house fuse, which would Likly be smaller.

You're need the 600a bus bars for the inverter grounds and pos. the mrbf fuses fit nice on these so you can move your house fuse onto the bus

Now would be the time to look at changing those batteries before you mount all the buses etc. those are not good house batteries. I would try to fit 4 golf carts. Especially if they are the sand age as your starter that just died. Even 2 golf carts would probably give you similar ah
smac999 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 12:04   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

If you have a hand drill (drill press is better) you can make your own high amp fuse block. I built this one years ago with a section of bar stock and some silicone bronze bolts/ nuts (silicone bronze is probably overkill) and Starboard. Good way to get a lot of fuses in a small space. The feed from the battery switch is on the bottom and is protected by a 300 A class T fuse right at the battery switch common (< 7”).

My set up is just three sets of golf cart batteries all connected as a large house bank with no dedicated starting battery. Has worked well for us of 9 years but to each his own in that choice.

Normally you protect a circuit at its’ source. Alternators and solar panels being the exception as their short circuit current is easily handled with wire size where as the fault current from a large battery bank can be in the thousands of amperes so fuse should be on the battery bank end.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SR 002.jpg
Views:	421
Size:	426.2 KB
ID:	94472  
Frankly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 16:41   #6
Registered User
 
Bill_E's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Mexico and Puerto Rico
Boat: Sunbeam, 37, Ziamar
Posts: 300
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

That's a nice clean fuse block. I'll have to think about it and see if there is a good place to do something like that.

I knew I'd end up with more things to think about. I did a little reading on Golf Cart batteries. I don't think I can get 4 in my battery box. Three will fit but that doesn't help. The other thing is that the battery box is under the berth in the aft cabin. Not the greatest air circulation. I wonder how serious that is?? But with the little I've read, golf cart batteries sure seem to have some advantages.

I've got 2/0 cable from my charger to a switch to a Class T fuse and then to the batteries now. It's about 3-4 feet. Do you really think 4/0 is required? That's some heavy cable and it's going to be a real bear to get it in the area. I suppose I should do some kind of current calculation.

Bill
__________________
Don't believe everything you think
Bill_E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 16:44   #7
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

Should be wired battery/fuse/switch, with the fuse as close as possible to the battery.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 17:55   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

2/0 should be OK for any normal main feed (stay out of engine compartment).

One of those ANL fuses feeds the starter on my 3GM Yanmar. Another personal choice items.

Most of the high amp charge sources (alt/ inv) have a temperature sensor to keep the battery temp in the mix. Assuming that your high amp loads will be of short duration (microwave popcorn) battery heating not likely to be a problem.

While you are running all the variables around in the cement mixer think about battery compartment ventilation (hydrogen not heat). Recent ABYC requirement.
Frankly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 19:46   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,634
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Should be wired battery/fuse/switch, with the fuse as close as possible to the battery.

doesn't really mater if they are both close. safer to change fuses if switch is first.
smac999 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 19:49   #10
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

It does matter. The switch can fail.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 19:51   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,634
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_E View Post
.

I've got 2/0 cable from my charger to a switch to a Class T fuse and then to the batteries now. It's about 3-4 feet. Do you really think 4/0 is required? That's some heavy cable and it's going to be a real bear to get it in the area. I suppose I should do some kind of current calculation.

Bill

you can take a look at the manual. the magnum 2800 wants 4/0 with 400a fuse for less then 5'. so I'm just assuming your 3000 probably does too. if you only have 2/0 then your fuse should only be 300a. and you may get nuisance blowing if you ever try to pull the full 3000 watts out. but normally you probably aren't maxing it out. with 2/0 at 3' I wouldn't be too worried about voltage drop. but possible to have ocasual fuse blowing since you might be limited to a smaller fuse then it wants.
smac999 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 19:52   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,634
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
It does matter. The switch can fail.

and what difference would it make if it was after or before the fuse? in either case you have a non working inverter / charger. and nothing else. or one you can't turn off.
smac999 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 19:56   #13
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

"The ABYC requirement is for a battery bank fuse to be within 7 wire inches of the battery bank."
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 21:18   #14
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,109
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
"The ABYC requirement is for a battery bank fuse to be within 7 wire inches of the battery bank."
Unless it's in a conduit, or similar. By the way a convoluted sheath, counts if it meets fire/smoke code UL listing.

Lloyd
FlyingCloud1937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2014, 21:31   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Panama City FL
Boat: Island Packet 32 Keel/CB
Posts: 995
Re: Rewiring with Upgrades

There are a couple of ABYC exceptions to the 7” rule (starting circuit, and extra insulation coverage). As a more practical matter, if there is physical separation between the battery positive cables before the fuses and anything connected to the negative side then a fault/ short circuit is not possible. Overloads can only happen at the load so fuse anywhere ahead of the load will take care of this condition.

Blue Sea has come up with a fuse that attaches directly to the screw stud on the battery. This would meet any 7” rules. I have had problems in high amp situations with the screw stud so prefer to connect directly to the lead post.

My personal preference is battery(s) directly to switch and then fuse the switch output (common) PDQ. I connect bilge pumps ahead of battery switch but that is it, BP circuit breakers close by switch, and split loom for good measure.

300 Amp class T fuse will carry 150% for almost 10 minutes. Don’t know what you have in mind with that 3000 watt inverter, but you will have to have a serious battery bank if you are planning anything like that and battery heating will rear its ugly head under these conditions.
Frankly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
wiring

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rewiring System - Is it OK ? bobox Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 8 30-06-2010 07:54
Rewiring My Stick - Pointers please! sdcascade29 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 16-03-2010 00:47
Engine Bay Makeover - Rewiring - Including Engine Removal! blahman Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 52 02-12-2009 09:01
Boat Rewiring Experiences jeffoctum Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 36 07-09-2009 15:02
Rewiring a relic--power advice? Electrical gurus? Sinuous Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 26 20-02-2009 20:54

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.