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Old 11-03-2011, 11:11   #46
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

History has lots of examples of juggling risk against reward.
Locating a nuclear reactor on arguably the most active siesmic location on Earth--Hmmm
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:31   #47
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by Sailon View Post
Amazon.com: Leonard Fleisig "Len"'s review of Wolves Eat Dogs (Arkady Renko Novels)

Here's a pretty good novel that paints a stark picture of the realities of Chernobyl. Nuclear powered surface vessels and submarines seem to me to be much safer than land based reactors which are statistically much more prone to catastrophic failure. I, for one, will never attempt to minimize the horrors of the calamity of such a failure to living things.
And nor would I attempt to minimize the horrors. I don't think anyone would want to minimize the horros. Certainly, Chernobyl was horrible, and fortunately an enormous amount of work has been done to design nuclear power plants to ensure that it will never happen again.

Remember, the Chernobyl type plant did not have any containment vessel. It was designed by the Soviet regime during a time when human life did not count for much. The main design value was for nuclear plants to be as cheap and fast to build as possible -- like Soviet housing. No one builds that kind of plant anymore, and nowadays the design values are quite different. As they should be.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:36   #48
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
then be ready to pay the price of all the other issues of NOT using nuclear energy till a better solution is found....including highrer costs for everything in the long run....cause it takes electricity/power for the whole world to run....
Everything in life is a tradeoff of one kind or another -- Psneeld and Bluestocking are right.

We can't ignore the risks -- Sailon is right.

We must not either minimize them or exaggerate them.

And we have to make a sober comparison with the alternatives. Coal? Conservation?
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:01   #49
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Obviously not an economic reality for cruising boats, but are there not reactors on some satellites? I would think they would have to be a lot smaller than 200 tons!
The problem with using the design of the nuclear power on Satelites, on your boat is they have no shielding. They are basically a pure ball of plutonium, or equivalent, allowed to react uncontrollably on a long boom arm to keep them from cooking the electronics, which are already radiation shielded because space is also full of radiation. a thermocouple array generates electricity, one downside - needs a continuos supply of cold, (space or arctic only).

There are scalable designs that use nuclear power.

1. A watch battery sized cell that is two high efficiancy solar cells sandwiched with a thin layer of radium, or polonium. Think of it as a D-cell that can power a flashlight for 1000 years continuosly.
2. A battery the size of a water heater that has several plates, one coated with an Alpha emmiter, (plus), the second coated with a beta emmiter, (minus). inside a lead and steel case. 1000watts for hundreds of years.
3. ???

There are millions of ways to generate electricity from nuclear power. We have concentrated on the biggest, most clumsy, and most inefficient way. Basically a big steam engine that burns uranium instead of coal.

The core reaction of breaking a heavier element into a lighter element, changing the energy states of a few subatomic particles, and rearranging the electron shells of a few atoms create changes that can be converted into any of the 4 forces.

Heat is a waste product that is only a small percentage of the energy generated, and the only one we use in the big commercial reactors. The "waste" is even more radioactive than the original fuel!

It is true building a huge radiactive steam engine in your sailboat is a bad idea, but a solar cell array coated with a thin sheet of a phosphorescing element that gives you electricity 24 hours a day powering an electric drive is not only doable, but practical...almost
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:12   #50
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Originally Posted by GordMay
Indeed.
Just today, part of a Japanese Nuclear Generating plant caught fire, and the cooling system has failed.
As of right now, officials say there is no immediate danger of a radiation leak but the reactor core remains hot even after shutdown.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/wo...12nuclear.html
And of course they would tell you the truth if there was any danger right? If you believe that I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like yo talk to you about.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:30   #51
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

The plant in Japan will have it's own power source to run the reactor coolant pumps (ie a locomotive engine and generator). Venting is a common event at nukes, a build up of hydrogen in the reactor requires it. Sad to say but many more Japanese will die from the tsunami then an emergency at a nuclear plant. Hundreds vs none......

Regarding waste, traveling waves reactors are being designed as we speak, they will be powered by spent fuel. WSJ 2/28

One final note for consumers. The nuclear power industry is suing the US government to recover $24 billion set aside for Yucca Mnt which was closed by the Obama Admin. We have all paid $.001/kw hr for years for this project. Reuters 3/10
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:36   #52
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

Y'all suppose we can get back on topic... Or at least CLOSE?
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:37   #53
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
It is true building a huge radiactive steam engine in your sailboat is a bad idea, but a solar cell array coated with a thin sheet of a phosphorescing element that gives you electricity 24 hours a day powering an electric drive is not only doable, but practical...almost
If you think bringing fruit or firearms through Customs is tricky, just imagine declaring your nukes!
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:53   #54
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pirate Re: Nuclear Energy Density

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli View Post
The plant in Japan will have it's own power source to run the reactor coolant pumps (ie a locomotive engine and generator). Venting is a common event at nukes, a build up of hydrogen in the reactor requires it. Sad to say but many more Japanese will die from the tsunami then an emergency at a nuclear plant. Hundreds vs none......

Regarding waste, traveling waves reactors are being designed as we speak, they will be powered by spent fuel. WSJ 2/28

One final note for consumers. The nuclear power industry is suing the US government to recover $24 billion set aside for Yucca Mnt which was closed by the Obama Admin. We have all paid $.001/kw hr for years for this project. Reuters 3/10
Thats the problem... the back up is screwed... and theres no back up for the back up....
Just when one thinks they know it all...
They're screwed... bit like sailing really..
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:56   #55
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by Red Mantis View Post
If you think bringing fruit or firearms through Customs is tricky, just imagine declaring your nukes!
True enough, current political situation is the strongest arguement against it. Imagine, you think Somalian pirates are a big problem NOW,...
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Old 11-03-2011, 13:07   #56
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Thats the problem... the back up is screwed... and theres no back up for the back up....
Just when one thinks they know it all...
They're screwed... bit like sailing really..
They have multiple back ups, multiple power sources and last resort measures to shut down modern reactors.
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Old 11-03-2011, 13:10   #57
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
History has lots of examples of juggling risk against reward.
Locating a nuclear reactor on arguably the most active siesmic location on Earth--Hmmm
or a country

funnily enough populations did well in unstable areas, as earth moving around / exploding now and again released natural resources. and probably something Darwinian on the local population as well

The electrickery I am using to write this post is nuclear - courtesy of the French. to test it just turn the light off - your monitor will appear to glow in the dark.

FACT.
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Old 11-03-2011, 13:21   #58
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

Actually there are several back ups besides the generator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Thats the problem... the back up is screwed... and theres no back up for the back up....
Just when one thinks they know it all...
They're screwed... bit like sailing really..
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Old 11-03-2011, 15:03   #59
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
then be ready to pay the price of all the other issues of NOT using nuclear energy till a better solution is found....including highrer costs for everything in the long run....cause it takes electricity/power for the whole world to run....
I think that reality is here already. nuclear energy is not the solution. Chernobyl 3 mile island love canal et al should give us all pause at the least.

You sound as if you wish to threaten those opposed with the idea of chernobyl being a sweet rusky state park ignore the two headed fish in the lake and keep your head in the sand like mine, cause i think i ken git cheaper gas for my guzzler that way.

Electric boats and cars, solar and wind energy are all
Much, much safer than nuke power plants. You ignore the terrible lessons of Chernobyl to our peril. Do you feel encouraged that the crazy despot achmadinejad is hoing nuclear? Not i.
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Old 11-03-2011, 15:14   #60
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Re: Nuclear Energy Density

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Originally Posted by Sailon View Post
I think that reality is here already. nuclear energy is not the solution. Chernobyl 3 mile island love canal et al should give us all pause at the least.

You sound as if you wish to threaten those opposed with the idea of chernobyl being a sweet rusky state park ignore the two headed fish in the lake and keep your head in the sand like mine, cause i think i ken git cheaper gas for my guzzler that way.

Electric boats and cars, solar and wind energy are all
Much, much safer than nuke power plants. You ignore the terrible lessons of Chernobyl to our peril. Do you feel encouraged that the crazy despot achmadinejad is hoing nuclear? Not i.
OK...shut-em down except where I live...I'll live with them and let you pay for your green energy world...just don't expect me to or vote for reps that think green is here yet...

Yep...$5.00 a gallon diesel forced the issue last time...and it will help again this time...but all the green energy is still too expensive and not even capable of making a dent yet. One nuke plant is more than all the green energy provided by several states at once.

Plus it still takes a lot of energy to produce those green energy producing technologies. Besides everyone loved dams till the salmon fishermen are suing to get them removed...

You got the answer???? run for congress...I'll vote for you...but you don't and neither does anyone else...that's why we are actively building something like a dozen nuke plants in the East and I hope more to follow.
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