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Old 19-11-2010, 14:15   #16
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If you have gas onboard then a blower to vent the interior is good before electrical equipment is energized. I feel the a little about the pertro issue also.
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Old 19-11-2010, 14:29   #17
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It never ceases to amaze me how much common sense has gone south in the last 50 years... things I understood/knew when I was 12 seem difficult for todays adults to grasp.... what went wrong.....
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Old 19-11-2010, 14:57   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshmat View Post
Gasoline vapours, like propane, are heavier than air. A locker holding a can of outboard gas would be vented in the same way as a locker holding a propane tank.
Exactly.

And for completeness, no ignition sources (lights, relays, and better, no wires at all). The vent is unlikely to drain the vapors as fast as they can generate. It will help keep them out of the boat.

I'm lucky; my boat has such a locker for the fuel tank, and there extra room in it for dingy fuel and small (BBQ) propane bottles. I also have a propane locker.

Both of my cats have been designed so that ALL tank, engine and fuel line leaks go overboard; I like that.
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Old 19-11-2010, 17:04   #19
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storing flamables

Ashore flammables are kept in steel lockers. I think the rationale being that a fire is contained and the oxygen in the small space is consumed and extinguishes the fire. A smaller version might do on a boat.
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Old 19-11-2010, 17:58   #20
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Gasoline freely vaporizes down to -45*F, which is also described as its Flash Point.
IIRC, its explosive range is very narrow, 1.4 - 7.6% in a normal atmosphere.
Its auto-ignition temperature is 960* F.
1 teacup of gasoline allowed to vaporize in a 10 x 10 x 10 room has the explosive potential of 3 sticks 0f 40% ammonia gelatin (dynamite)

FWIW, these were the statistics taught to me when I was a rookie firefighter in 1963.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:30   #21
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Re: Fireproof Covering for Gasoline / Petrol

there is a company calles axs global in bahrain and they make a system that is inserted into the tank, it takes 1.5% of the volume and then even if the tank splits the fuel will not explode. their video shows a bullet being fired into a tank that is sitting in a burning oil and no explosion. they will start marketing this at the boat shows next year and is should reduce all the concerns about fuels in boats.
it can also be used in Gas cans.
the substance reduces all vapor to 20% saving fuel costs as well.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:22   #22
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Re: Fireproof Covering for Gasoline / Petrol

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Rob.

What sort of cost might we expect for a <100 gallon integral fuel tank, and a <6 gallon portable jerry can?
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Old 06-07-2011, 21:39   #23
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Re: Fireproof Covering for Gasoline / Petrol

It's slightly off topic but since the discussion has turned to explosion proof fuel tanks, tale a look at the Aero Tec Labs web site: Aero Tec Laboratories - Aero Tec Labs - Aerotech - ATL - Aerotec - AeroTech Labs, Fuel Cells_Cell, Bladders_Bladder, Bladder Tanks_Tank, Potable Water Bladders, Pillow Tanks_Tank_Containment, Portable Tanks_Tank, Liquid Storage, Collapsible Tanks_Tan
They make explosion proof self sealing tanks, all kinds of bladder tanks and a bunch of neat stuff.
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Old 06-07-2011, 23:01   #24
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Re: Fireproof Covering for Gasoline / Petrol

I had some kind of foam like this in an auxiliary fuel tank in rear of my SUV back in the mid 80's. Cant recall the brand name. Never tested it out in an accident fortunately. At the time racing cars often used it, so that's another source of material and expertise. My only hassle with it was that you had to fill more slowly at the gas pump than with a normal tank.

But, while it will stop tanks from exploding (they just burn instead of explode!), it wont stop vapours filling bilges/lockers. So generally I wouldn't see the point of having it on boat that is only carrying small amounts of gas for a tender's outboard or small genny. Externally vented propane type lockers seem to be best.
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Old 06-07-2011, 23:46   #25
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Re: Fireproof Covering for Gasoline / Petrol

I have a gasoline only cruising boat. (outboards)
As long as you follow a few basic rules I do not see any issues.
Problems in the past were because of fuel vapour in the bilge and then a spark.
Bilge blowers take care of this problem.
All said though, I would not have an internal gasoline engine.
My Honda genset is on deck.
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Old 07-07-2011, 00:55   #26
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Re: Fireproof Covering for Gasoline / Petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt rmj View Post
there is a company calles axs global in bahrain and they make a system that is inserted into the tank, it takes 1.5% of the volume and then even if the tank splits the fuel will not explode. their video shows a bullet being fired into a tank that is sitting in a burning oil and no explosion. they will start marketing this at the boat shows next year and is should reduce all the concerns about fuels in boats.
it can also be used in Gas cans.
the substance reduces all vapor to 20% saving fuel costs as well.
rgds
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I will sell you a magic substance that will not take any extra volume in your tank, and will prevent your gas tank from exploding. In fact, it's already in there. It's gasoline! The head space in your gas tank is too rich to burn or explode unless the tank is completely drained (even then it's unlikely). In the even less likely event that your gas tank is shot with a bullet, it's still not going to explode. If you are truly unfortunate enough to have your gas tank shot and the fuel leaking out contact open flame, then yes, I can see where the vapors from the leaking fuel will ignite. I'll add a liability rider in my substance's packaging for that possibility.

The only thing you might prevent with whatever they're selling would be BLEVE, and if you've got the conditions for that you have ***way*** bigger problems than the tank going up. Race cars use fuel cells to keep the fuel *in* the tank when they crash, not stop the tank from exploding. In the tank it's much safer than spread out on the tarmac where it can get a good vapor going and cause ill will.

That's not to say that gasoline aboard is infallable. It's like anything, you have to handle it properly. The knife you use to prepare dinner will just as easily kill you if you let it. Yet we generally call the knife "safe" and the gasoline "not." The idea is to keep the fuel contained, and to take measures like ignition precautions and ventilation / blower precautions as if the vapor were present.

I carry gasoline for the outboard, and will soon have a Honda generator too. My concern is more about covering the gerry can so that the sun doesn't degrade the plastic than fire prevention. Short of stumbling into the can with a lit flare I can't see how I could get it to light off. We have a honda genny in a compartment on a truck at work and have zero issues with it leaking. I worry more about the fact that guys will run it for two hours and then slam the compartment door closed and drive off with the exhaust system still crazy hot. Not enough to lose any sleep over, but I grin at the thought of the fire truck rolling down the street on fire. I figure that the heat is more likely to ignite the paint than the fuel, though.

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