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Old 30-09-2014, 13:25   #1
tat
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Boat: cabin cruiser 22ft
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Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

Hi folks, really glad to find this forum. I have purchased a 1970s 22ft cabin cruiser with outboard engine and trailer...each of the three items need attention, so it is my project to be on with. I have had the engine to a marine engineer for assessment and now have it back in my workshop....work workshop.I'm not that rich, well, not rich at all to be exact, but I get by. Anyway, the engine I have decided to look at later during cold winter months. For the last three weeks i have been working very hard at stripping out the interior, all of it, and fitting a new layout, lockers, sink, hob, and floor. I have pretty much finnished all that, just an hour or two of painting left to do. So I've done well so far, but it was really because of all the good weather lately which I have taken every opportunity to utilise, knowing that endless rain wind and cold will be upon us soon, and the boat being in a boatyard, well, sawing the marine ply, etc, and painting, had to be done outside. Also I am really happy with the new layout, really happy. The next job is to buy and fit a propex heater, and then do the electrics, all from totally new. i don't know much about electrics, just a few basics, i suppose, but I will be able to do it and am looking forward to it.

I only require a basic electrical set-up. I want to keep it as simple as possible. I'll only be doing canals and maybe some rivers.

I've had a look on the internet and see there is a marine electrical supply place in Manchester. My idea is to find out just what I need and then drive over and get it all in one go.

But I don't know what I need.

I have a battery, newish, leisure (I caravan tour), but that is it. Maybe a roll of insulation tape somewhere as well. But that really is it.

I've bought and read some books about it but they don't tell me what I want.

I want to be told something along these lines. 'You need a such-and-such consumer unit, a such-and-such fuse box, such-and-such wire, such and such tools, such-and-such connectors'.
THEN, 'you wire from the battery to the consumer unit, and then from the consumer unit to a fuse box, and then from the fuse box to each light, socket, etc, and that is it, real simple.

I will be able to wire it all.....I mean, I don't need my hand to be held all through it, and I have books which tell me about which size wires, etc. But I just need someone to say to me that I need ABC and that I wire A to B, and then to C.

Hope someone can help.

cheers,

tat.
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Old 30-09-2014, 19:54   #2
tat
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

I think me asking this question has helped me suss the job. I think I've grasped it.

Battery, battery fuse, battery isolation switch, distribution board.

From the distribution board I send spurs of positive and negative wires to each electrical fitting i wish to serve with electricity.

BUT, some appliances will have a switch on them or near them, as where they are is where they need to be controlled, but some other appliances need to be controlled remotely, from a special location on the boat, and this is where I site the control panel.

The appliances being switched at the control panel means that the circuit to these appliances needs to incorporate the control panel switch in that circuit, meaning that there has to be a connection between the distribution unit to the control panel.

The distribution unit incorporates a circuit breaker for each appliance.

Because battery power is limited I need to keep an eye on how much I have in store (electrical potential), so I do this by fitting a voltmeter between the positive and negative cables between the battery to the distribution unit, and this needs to be switched so that it doesn't waste electricity when I don't need to look at it, and I site this on my control panel.

And because my appliances are consuming electricity I have to keep an eye on that, so I need an amp meter to see how much current I am drawing at any one time. I site this also on the control panel, but at this moment I am unsure as where it would be connected in order to be between the appliances, the total of them, and, well, have to think about that one a bit longer.

But the penny has dropped i think.


I will be able to charge the battery using shore power, but will I be able to charge it from my engine, which is a 9.9 outboard.......I'll find out in due course, I suppose.

I will keep a totally separate battery for starting the engine, one designed for that purpose, like a car battery.

I will make my own control panel and have it around the steering position.

I will buy a distribution board, of course, and will make sure that it has plenty of 'spaces' for circuits, and i will use a circuit breaker in each of these spaces each dedicated solely to each appliance, using the correct size amp circuit breaker.

Wire size will be calculated so as to be correct for each circuit. Ends crimped with correct size lugs. Conduit will be used, tinned multistrand wire used, gromets if needed to stop chaffing, etc.

Tools to do this work will become known as I set about the task.

I will have to make sure that everything is marine grade and up to current safety standards.

I think that is it.

Funny that, by just asking the question, it has led me to answer it, sort of clearing up a fog of confusion. I have actually woken up in the middle of the night and come down to write this so that it sticks in my mind.
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Old 30-09-2014, 20:06   #3
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

You can always start a blog on wordpress for free. I have one and it helps me in much the same way.

As for parts, Amazon can be your friend. Crimps tools, waterproof crimps ( heat shrink) and tinned marine wire can all be had on Amazon at a fraction of the cost as West Marine.

On old boats it can be shocking what horrible wire work can be done.




Gary
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Old 30-09-2014, 20:21   #4
tat
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

Thanks Gary, I think i may be able to use amazon now that I know what to be asking for. Had a few things from that place and it seems to work out ok.

Other things. I need to tell someone, and you are here at the moment, so I'll tell you......my girlfriend is on holiday in the States at the mo, and I'm here in the uk looking after her cat, an old one, 20 years old. She adores him soooo much, and after a few days he stopped eating much and then stopped drinking and I thought he was on his way out. She would be so heartbroken she would have transfered all that on to me as not having done a good job and killed the poor thing. I have been nursing this cat so much, being really nice to him like he was royalty, waiting on him hand and foot as he seemed to respond to that treatment. I even set up a cat-sized table for him so that he didn't have to eat with his head down to the ground (and he certainly prefered it)..........thank God he seems to be perking up. She gets back today. Oh, I can't tell you just how relieved I am. No way do i ever want to look after someone's pet again. Just had to tell someone. Cheers, and thanks for the Amazon tip as that will be easier for me. Cheers
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:33   #5
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

I looked after someone indoor bunny for a week. Damn thing was useless and left marbles everyplace.


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Old 01-10-2014, 07:56   #6
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

Tat, I think you've figured out the wiring problem now on to the cat problem.
I'm going through the same thing with my elderly cat. I have found she will eat Gerber baby food. They have four different meat flavors and she seems to like them all. I've also been giving her wet cat food blended to baby food consistency.
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:00   #7
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

Have a few points for you to think about;
1. Since you are only looking at lakes and rivers much of the marine stuff does not apply. You don't NEED tinned cable as you are on fresh water, it will last longer but is primarily for salt water use. Good PVC cable with crimped ends seal with a spray coating should be fine.
2. Separate engine battery is good but you don't need other safety backups that are recommended for offshore because if anything goes wrong you can get to the bank.
3. Fuses work fine and are much cheaper that breakers. fit a big one on the supply to each panel then smaller ones for individual circuits. Auto type spades are fine.
The main problem with wiring is physical damage, especially vibration. I would say use a min size of about 2.5sq/mm (14g or 16g I think) don't use fine wires for low power circuits or you will have more problems with them breaking at the terminals. Also keep cables well supported for the same reason.
4 You probably won't be able to charge the 'house battery' from the outboard. If it has a charger connection this is generally only powerful enough for the engine start battery.
5. I would have a backup to shore power. depending on use this could be a solar panel that will charge battery between weekend trips or a small portable genset you can run on the dock or bank when tied up. Remember A/C power near any water is dangerous and follow ABYC wiring recommendations. I would also suggest getting the A/C circuit checked by a competent person before switching on.
6. You can use equipment designed for outdoor domestic use as long as it is rated for wet environments. This is often much cheaper (the word 'marine' on the lable doubles the price!) Basically wire it like you would a workshop

Good luck
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:47   #8
tat
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

Hi Hopcar, Baby food and blending is a good idea.........soup, of course. Damn good idea.

The cat perked up, but was very thin. girlfriend says never going to leave him again and 'suggested' that when we go on our boat next year then we take Barney as well. It was a close shave. Like I said, I set a table up for him because he was obviously feeling ill and sick, so abit of pampering helps when you are off your food. On this table I had finely-chopped roast chicken skin, chopped chicken breast, chopped chicken leg, all in three little piles. Then there was an assortment of mashed catfoods. I separated the jelly from the salmon bits because he liked that. He had bowls of lactose-free milk and I went out to get him some bottled spring water. It looked like a real banquet.

But he has perked up and everyone is happy. I will remember baby food, that is a very good idea.......genius thinking.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:59   #9
tat
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Re: Beginner doing new re-wire on 22ft cab cruiser. Help please.

Hi Roland, thank you very much for all that you wrote. It is very helpful to me. You are a man with good sense.

I have always managed to avoid wiring, so simply knew very little. Now I am getting more familiar with things then I feel more confident.

You made lots of good points. I'm not going to use tinned wire now....that was the books talking, as with circuit breakers. In fact, I am going to do it as cheap as i can, but all good and safe. I was getting carried away, but your good sense has put me back on the proper track. Thank you very much. I'm going to print out what you wrote. Good info/advice and confidence-giving. Thank you.

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