Lagoon Fetish - Part 2

[Scottster]

My wife did in fact take off, time for my 450.

[dougdaniel]

I too, have been obsessing about a Lagoon. Specifically, I want a used 440, owners addition. I am an Internet Marketer, already have three retirements and am about 3 product launches away from buying one.

My logic for buying a used one is simply that a new 450 with all the bells and whistles will cost me about 2.5 times the corresponding 4-6 year old 440. The difference in the two models, as far as I can tell, is quite minimal. So I think with the left over cash, I should be able to do a lot of maintenance if my surveyor screws up and still be ahead.

Since I can live any place in the world, why not shuttle back and forth between the Med (where I now live) and the Carib or East Coast?

I could not have put together a better set of requirements than the gentleman who started this thread. Thanks.

[jmpilot]

".and like most Catamarans a few have been capsized way out at sea with loss of life" ???
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. First off based on the insurance actuarial's from Loyd's and Blue Water the floundering rate of monos is significantly greater than for cats over the last 10 years, adjusted per capita of course. The modern class A cats, even production boats like Lagoon and Leopard (Robertson and Caine) are very safe and many have sailed the globe.

[geoleo]

it means what it says

[jmpilot]

not to start an argument but just to be clear, it doesn't mean anything (capsizing w loss of life)

Just last year in the Chicago-Mac race in Lk Mi a Kiwi 35 (mono) was lifted out of the water and dropped upside down with the loss of two lives by a squall.There will always be rare events. More people drown from falling overboard than from boat loss.
There is some risk to offshore sailing but less than driving your car around town. When I was flying F-16s we had some fatalities due to mechanical failure but that did not make the whole fleet unsuitable for flying combat.
In terms of fire, three Amel 54's (relatively new boats) have burned du to AC malfunctions, and Amel is one of the safest mono's out there. I know a couple who's HR 46 burned at anchor from a heater wire short. Stuff happens!

I have owned 7 boats, 6 mono's and now a cat. I have a Masters Captain and just under 50,000nm of sea miles, 4 continents, 27 countries, and a wide range of boat and sea conditions. I am only telling the person who started the thread not to worry about things like "flipping over". The Lagoon is a production boat, you get more boat for less money but lose a few things like superior wiring one gets with a more expensive boat. The bottom line however is they are Class A certified, have decent quality to price ratio, perform well for a cruiser, and are very comfortable. If one likes the design there is no reason not to get one. This by the way is assuming normal trade wind routes. I do not recommend theses production cats for high latitude sailing but we all know that is a different animal.

[capn_billl]

Lack of tinned wire isn't a deal breaker for me.

Every boat I've looked at has had SCARY wiring. But easily fixed in a couple of weekends with a spool of ABYC rated marine wire, and a handfull of marine terminal blocks.

[geoleo]

It may not mean anything to you-but it sure meant a lot for those 2 Lagoon owners whose boats burned and sank at the dock a few months ago--and now this new OP nearby informs us of 2 Amels whe recently burned --- all french boatys

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Lack of tinned wire isn't a deal breaker for me.

Every boat I've looked at has had SCARY wiring. But easily fixed in a couple of weekends with a spool of ABYC rated marine wire, and a handfull of marine terminal blocks.

If you ever looked at a Island Packet or a Bristol you would see wiring done to AYBS

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Lack of tinned wire isn't a deal breaker for me.

Every boat I've looked at has had SCARY wiring. But easily fixed in a couple of weekends with a spool of ABYC rated marine wire, and a handfull of marine terminal blocks.

BTW-- I looked t a MAINSHIP once--for about 6 seconds -and ran away..........

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by jmpilot

not to start an argument but just to be clear, it doesn't mean anything (capsizing w loss of life)

Just last year in the Chicago-Mac race in Lk Mi a Kiwi 35 (mono) was lifted out of the water and dropped upside down with the loss of two lives by a squall.There will always be rare events. More people drown from falling overboard than from boat loss.
There is some risk to offshore sailing but less than driving your car around town. When I was flying F-16s we had some fatalities due to mechanical failure but that did not make the whole fleet unsuitable for flying combat.
In terms of fire, three Amel 54's (relatively new boats) have burned du to AC malfunctions, and Amel is one of the safest mono's out there. I know a couple who's HR 46 burned at anchor from a heater wire short. Stuff happens!

I have owned 7 boats, 6 mono's and now a cat. I have a Masters Captain and just under 50,000nm of sea miles, 4 continents, 27 countries, and a wide range of boat and sea conditions. I am only telling the person who started the thread not to worry about things like "flipping over". The Lagoon is a production boat, you get more boat for less money but lose a few things like superior wiring one gets with a more expensive boat. The bottom line however is they are Class A certified, have decent quality to price ratio, perform well for a cruiser, and are very comfortable. If one likes the design there is no reason not to get one. This by the way is assuming normal trade wind routes. I do not recommend theses production cats for high latitude sailing but we all know that is a different animal.

Whats Class "A " Certified? Is it that CE thingy that says thru hulls and seacocks must last 5 years and has no electrical rules??

[careka]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

Whats Class "A " Certified? Is it that CE thingy that says thru hulls and seacocks must last 5 years and has no electrical rules??

This is what it is.

Safety and environment: EU harmonised requirements for recreational craft - Maritime industries - Enterprise and Industry

[Lagoon4us]

So sad a person finds joy and satisfaction in re-gurgitating unproven "pseudo facts".

I have just bought a Lagoon 440 Owners Version 2007 model which allows me to comment, i have looked at other 440's in America one in particular that is a 2004 build and has done two Atlantic crossings.
We have sailed our boat here since purchasing for 2 months now and in that time i've inspected every nook and cranny in the bilge, behind panels most everywhere.
What have i found that disappoints me?
1) Where electric winches have been fitted the unseen cutouts in the GRP are rough, i.e. not square just hacked out.
2) No provision to run extra wires within the conduits in the mast.
3) Rail/staunchion height a bit low.
4) Cupboard doors in galley smack me in the head but i'm learning to close them more often.
5) Cabin lights are filament style.
6) All manuals are in German simply because the previous owner was Austrian, thank heavens for google.

What have i found that is execptional?
1) The way the boat works, it sails nicely handles nicely and actually talks to me which is something i thought i had lost when i decided to change to a multihull.
2) The comfort, the layout and how efficient it is.

Is it a racer??? NO.
Is it seaworthy? Well i think the ARC history shows this....


Lets look at the sad points this person continually re-gurgitates:-
1) Wiring being not tinned.... Cannot find any dull wicking, Discolouration, warm circuits or any issues, i guess time will tell.
2) Brass seacocks, nuff has been said of this issue, i cannot find any de-zincafication of any valves even the ball valves internal for sinks etc.....
3) Boats burning..... One thing i have taken note of is that on board there is a lot of after-market equipment fitted, chilled water air con, solar, inverter, extra batteries, thrusters, passerole, diesel heating system etc etc. Bad wiring is more likely to come from these installers rather than the builder.

Keep in mind any builder of a motor car, boat, aircraft WHATEVER from any part of the world is open to litigation should they shortcut a standard.

No one should take seriously purile comments from armchair critics who do not back those comments with fact, to simply state 2 boats burnt because of 'rah rah rah' is not good enough. Lagoon and most other re-putable builder build to a budget however they are not stupid enough to take short cuts on nickel and dime stuff.

Here in Croatia i have been to two boat shows one at Split the other at Sibenik and i've got to tell you Lagoon's dominate, on any day cruising the islands i would see 4 or 5 Leopards are next in popularity.

I'm a qualified albeit retired boat/shipbuilder, under Australian law i'm qualified under the USL Code which AMSA adopted.

I think armchair occupants need to think before they sprout, i see most purile stuff that is posted here tends to emanate from re-gurgitated internet scuttlebutt, unreliable and unfounded at best.

The standard comeback from these rocking chair experts is "well tell that to so and so who's boat was lost because a fuse overheated" ..... Just silly!

Listen more to the people that have walked the walk the ones who have sailed, built bought and experienced rather than gossip mongered,,,,

Cheers all i've been away from the forum busy enjoying our LAGOON 440 it was worth the brass every copper!!!!!! LMAO Frank

[Strygaldwir]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Lack of tinned wire isn't a deal breaker for me.

Every boat I've looked at has had SCARY wiring. But easily fixed in a couple of weekends with a spool of ABYC rated marine wire, and a handfull of marine terminal blocks.

I admit to never having re-wired a boat before, But it took me more like 3 weeks pretty much full-time to re-wire my catamaran. True they had used MULTIPLE tie downs all throughout the boat to make sure every thing was secure. Some were VERY hard to get to and this slowed down things considerably. I also optimized wiring in certain locations to improve access and serviceability. I heat shrunk all connections, calculated voltage drops and used several different gauges of wire depending on load and run. This was all doable, but it was not trivial.

YMMV

[dirkdig]

How many Lagoons has this critic owned???
Enough said.

[engele]

Having spent a bit of time on a 380, I found it to be an ideal, high quality boat. My only complaint is that it has sail drives, and that is just personal bias. Tough, high quality, LIVEABLE.