380 S2: Lagoon 380S2 Mini-Review

[Redbull addict]

The Lagoon 380S2 is on my short list of cats that I'm considering to purchase down the road. My wife and I first looked at an S2 at the Pacific Sailboat show in oakland a few months ago. Overall we liked the space and design and walked away fairly impressed.

We had the opportunity to charter the S2 with Sunsail in the Grenadines last week and came away with a different impression after spending some time on the boat. I hope this helps others.

The things that we didn't like was
1. cockpit design - walking through it at the boat show it didn't bother us, but sailing in even moderate conditions (the worst being 7ft waves, winds at 20-25knts with heavy rain) the steps across and into the saloon not being all equal continually threw us off. i'd much prefer consistantly spaced steps of equal height. The helms seat also had a rail on one side because you couldn't step off to the other side because of the drop. So running over to the other side of the boat in a hurry was blocked and you had to run around the seat. I'll certainly pay closer attention to this on other boats.
2. Bimini - low design and extra guage cluster on top reduced visibility out of the helm station considerably, too much for my taste. Also, the removable canvas section above the captains chair would flap constantly when closed and hit whomever was sitting in the seat in the head...ANNOYING! The other issue with the height was that it was just the right height for people in the 5'8" to 6' range to whack their heads on the port side thinking they cleared the bimini, when in fact they nearly knocked themselves out. it happened to every guy on the boat, several times each.
3. Hatches - In light to medium rains one of the hatches in the saloon leaked badly and 3 of the 4 hatches over the staterooms leaked on the beds. Surprisingly bad in my opinion. Perhaps being a charter boat caused this, but I was still surprised.
3. Water tankage - for 5 people for 5 days we barely had enough water even with pretty stringent rules about showering, cooking, rinsing, etc.
4. lack of storage around the cockpit and aft deck - no place to securely place drinks, sunscreens or other small knit-knacks other than on the table or seats around the table.

There were a few other problems with the boat, but those were mnost certainly due to its hard life as a charter boat.

What we did like was the aft cabin space. The large opening between the interior and exterior on the rear with that bar like table. Fairly high bridgedeck that didn't slap at night, but did slap several times at sea in moderate conditions.

[The South African]

Hi Redbull Addict
It is good that one is critical about the boat you want to buy. No boat is perfect and they are all compromises. Further, something that irritates one person is acceptable to another. I am very happy with my Leopard 40 and have no regrets on anything after having owned her for one year now - 800 litres water tank, 350 litres fuel tank, hard top, good accomodations, good speed, good pointing, good visibility all round, well built.

But another guy would again maybe completely differ from me.

[ireaney]

Hi Redbull Addict
Thanks for posting the information, may I ask what you thought about the performance, especially in light winds 8-14 knots at the different points of sail and of course how she handled in stronger winds ie 20-30 knots.
Thanks
Ian

[TaoJones]

Real-life reviews such as your "mini review" of the Lagoon 380 s2 are the best information one could ask for, IMO, and I just wish more people would share their experiences aboard vessels they've sailed/chartered.

I, too, had considered the 380 at one point, and I'm not surprised to read about the things you found lacking. Have you been aboard the Lagoon 410? It is surprising how much more spacious the 410 is, compared to the 380.

Again, thanks for the review.

TaoJones

[Redbull addict]

thanks guys!

On performance, the best we were able to get was 7.7knots in 15-18knot winds on a beam reach. I'm having trouble remembering all the different combinations but I believe on the same sail position when the winds dropped to 10-12knots we were doing about 5 knots.

Trying to sail upwind at about 45 degrees in 8-10 knot winds caused the boat to sail at less than 2 knots. I stopped even trying to sail upwind at anything less than 60 degrees. While trying to get to Mustique upwind under power at 2K rpm we were doing ~4 knots.

[Redbull addict]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Real-life reviews such as your "mini review" of the Lagoon 380 s2 are the best information one could ask for, IMO, and I just wish more people would share their experiences aboard vessels they've sailed/chartered.

I, too, had considered the 380 at one point, and I'm not surprised to read about the things you found lacking. Have you been aboard the Lagoon 410? It is surprising how much more spacious the 410 is, compared to the 380.

Again, thanks for the review.

TaoJones

Hi,

Thanks, I have not been on the 410 yet, so I'll try to check it out.

Take care,
Tom

[Redbull addict]

a couple of other points I forgot to mention.

During the rougher spots in open waters when the waves were big and the winds were pretty strong the 380 felt pretty safe. At no point did we worry for our safety. The biggest waves were actually on day one and it caught me a little by surprise as we approached Bequia from the north. The waves on a couple of occasions looked to be bigger than the usual 5-7ft. My guess is about 10 ft, but they didn't last long.

The other thing I noticed is that unless the sails were way off the boat speed was pretty consistant. I tried playing with the sail shape and as much as I tried, never did the speed improve more than .8 knot.

[Efraim]

Good review. Although one hears a lot about the comprimises one has to make about design, leaking hatches are a hallmark of poor material + poor workmanship, areas that should not be open to comprimise.

[swarren]

Those are great comments Redbull, and as a 380 owner I can second most of them. That's why on my boat I have 2 of the water tanks and no bimini. I don't really get the point of most biminis, they just shelter me from the sailing experience in my opinion. I also have the boat rigged so all the controls lead to the helm, I never have to run to the other side of the boat that way. I will say I've had no problems with the hatches, so I think you must have gotten a less then stellar boat maintenance-wise.

On the sailing, I can confirm the boat feels very safe. I've been in around 40 knot winds (in and around the Golden Gate Bridge), and 12ft+ seas (along the coast) without concern. I'm suprised at your close hauled performance, again it may be the particular boat you got, but I typically close haul at about 43 degrees before I worry about stalling. I'll sail around 55 degrees if I have my gennaker up.

[Chuteman]

Redbull: I chartered the older version a couple of weeks before you & a few islands north and walked away puzzled.....thinking it must be me.
But "SW" help share some info in response to my 380 Polar thread & another owner helped put other things into perspective offline.
1) Cockpit - yes, it was trickier than necessary.....and I thought a Belize 43 was the only one that was like a health club step class.
2) Bimini - Ditto = I rolled the canvas back (it was low plus sagging) but the bumps on my head from not ducking enough are not fully healed yet.
3) Hatches - we did not have the same issues nor that much rain but we did have an emergency hatch in the starboard hull that leaked....
4) Water - Supposedly 600 liters in 2 tanks......we stopped for more water due to longer charter, we were not trying to conserve that much.
5) Cockpit Storage - yes, an owner would definitely have to install cup holders & storage bags to hold loose items......although many Cat sailors / owners swear their drinks & food don't move underway....yeah, right.
6) Aft Cabin - yes very comfortable to sleep & still got a nice breeze with wind scoop
7) Sailing Performance - less than impressive
8) Bridgedeck Wave Slap - definitely underway whenever wave heights grew >5' depending on point of sail.
Pointing ability was similar to yours which could be sail / rig combo vs SW's...............a good learning experiment.

[swarren]

Originally Posted by Chuteman

Pointing ability was similar to yours which could be sail / rig combo vs SW's...............a good learning experiment.

I'll have to go experiment.

I've been pondering this, and a few factors may help explain it.

1) I sail in San Francisco, typically strong winds so maybe I don't sail enough in 8-10kt winds to have a good feel (especially since I don't typically track "true" wind direction so much versus "apparent" wind direction when out sailing). In other words, I may just be wrong.
2) My boat may be a lot lighter, I don't have more then a daysails worth of stuff onboard typically, charter boats with 1 or 2 weeks of supplies are probably heavier (along with gensets, AC, lots of water, and whatever else). As well as the bulk of my sailing is just my wife and I (no extra passenger weight).
3) Boat condition, clean bottom, decent non-worn out sails (I have a mylar gennaker for example) could make a difference.
4) Locking the props when sailing I've heard makes a difference.

[Redbull addict]

Originally Posted by swarren

I'll have to go experiment.

I've been pondering this, and a few factors may help explain it.

1) I sail in San Francisco, typically strong winds so maybe I don't sail enough in 8-10kt winds to have a good feel (especially since I don't typically track "true" wind direction so much versus "apparent" wind direction when out sailing). In other words, I may just be wrong.
2) My boat may be a lot lighter, I don't have more then a daysails worth of stuff onboard typically, charter boats with 1 or 2 weeks of supplies are probably heavier (along with gensets, AC, lots of water, and whatever else). As well as the bulk of my sailing is just my wife and I (no extra passenger weight).
3) Boat condition, clean bottom, decent non-worn out sails (I have a mylar gennaker for example) could make a difference.
4) Locking the props when sailing I've heard makes a difference.

Agreed...I think you may see different results.

During my fastest beam reach we were heavy on water, fuel, supplies, etc. Our upwind performance that I mentioned was on our 4 or 5th day, so water was less than half, fuel at ~3/4. Our bottom wasn't very dirty but the antifouling paint was nearly gone below the waterline.

I forgot to mention one other thing that was an issue. The refrigerator was a side loading model with a handle and tab locking mechanism. Over time the tab would lose its rigidity (held in with 2 screws) and the fridge would not close completely. I mentioned this during the debrief after the trip and the gentlemen made a comment that most of their 380 suffered the same issue. Perhaps another symptom of overuse or abuse by charterers.

[swarren]

Originally Posted by Redbull addict

I forgot to mention one other thing that was an issue. The refrigerator was a side loading model with a handle and tab locking mechanism. Over time the tab would lose its rigidity (held in with 2 screws) and the fridge would not close completely. I mentioned this during the debrief after the trip and the gentlemen made a comment that most of their 380 suffered the same issue. Perhaps another symptom of overuse or abuse by charterers.

I've heard of issues with other owners getting a good seal or fully locked close or something like that. I've never had any issues with my fridge (except a small fish blocked the sea water intake once ). The door locking mechanism is the original install.

[Chuteman]

RB: I think SW is sand bagging us = Mylar gennaker sail
As I mentioned to SW before, I had a "beard" on most of the waterline on both hulls & not that clean below the water line. Winds in the mid-teens & did not think the sails were that big especially the jib.
Weight - there was only two of us........gear equally balanced....no Genset, no A/C, we were carrying lots of drinking water + Rum but not that much to slow the boat...... and I did lock the props when sailing....although 600 liters of water in the tanks + full fuel tanks would make a difference
Fridge - yeah, front opening (which needed a extra push to get the latch to really set tight) certaining did not help the over burdened inverter keep it coolish in mid 90 temps.......it was struggle all charter long once we got off shore power.
Like I said, an interesting experiment.

[swarren]

Originally Posted by Chuteman

RB: I think SW is sand bagging us = Mylar gennaker sail

OMG, that is my favorite sail! Here's a picture of us sailing across Monterey Bay, just a gorgeous time! (you can see the gennaker covers like a whole quarter of the boat ).