Want To Buy: Jacklines and Tethers

[Cruising Couple]

For a 37 foot monohull (Tartan 37). Would like accordian style tethers with Wichard clips.

Please send photo and price via private message.

Thanks,
Darby and Falco
Clearwater, FL

[Sea Dancer V]

A stern line webbing reel is something you might want to consider for jacklines. It can also be used as a stern anchor rode, tow line and whatever you might find it useful for. We just recently purchased one for our boat. Here is a link that shows it. http://www.rekord-marine.com/media/1...als%202012.pdf
Regards,
Paul

[corbin39sailor]

I make tethers like the one below for $85.00. The hardware is not made by Wichard but is very high quality SS comparable in specifications. 2" webbing with V92 polyester stitching. Color choice is blue or red. Length 2 meters. Your choice of one 4" carabineer and one 2-3/4" egg shackle or two 4" carabineers. Add a second 1 meter non elastic leg with 4" carabineer for $29.00. Minimum breaking strength 5200 lbs.

Extra heavy duty 1" jacklines can be made for 1.45 per foot plus $35.00 for one end with 4" carabineer and one plain end or $5.00 for one end with loop and one end plain. Regular heavy duty 1" jacklines can be made for $1.10 per foot plus the ends offered above.

[PnL]

Corin39,

Interested in your tethers and jacklines. Can you send more info.

PnL

[corbin39sailor]

About the only things to add are that the breaking strength of the heavy duty jackline webbing is about 4200 lbs and the extra heavy duty is 6000 lbs. Allow about 2 to 3 weeks as these are custom made to order. When measuring jacklines, don't forget to add a couple of feet in order to tie one end off. Send a PM with your requirements and email address and I will send you back a quote.

[thinwater]

A wire gate biner is arguably acceptable on the harness end, though most would prefer a locking biner. ISAF allows both.

However, a non-locking biner on the jack-line end is a very serious safety hazard and does not comply with recognized standards. It is very simple for a wire gate biner to unclip when rotated about a fixed anchor. Read the following from ISO 12401:

5.4 Accidental hook opening testing


5.4.1 The tendency of the hook to accidentally become detached from its attachment point shall be tested
using the following three styles of attachment point, made from 8 mm diameter rod:
a) a straight rod;
b) an eye bolt of internal radius 10 mm;
c) U-bolts of internal radius 15 mm and 20 mm.

5.4.2 Move the hook by hand as far as is possible in the following directions with the attachment point
mounted vertically:
a) move forward and backward, right and left without any rotation, movement being in the horizontal plane;
b) rotate in the horizontal plane by up to 360° using the attachment point as the axis, rotating both clockwise
and anticlockwise;
c) rotate in the vertical plane by up to 360° about the axis of the hook, rotating both clockwise and anticlockwise;
d) rotate in the vertical plane by up to 360° about an axis running through the attachment point, rotating both
clockwise and anticlockwise.


The hook fails the test if it releases from the attachment point. If the hook closure mechanism is shown to
open but not release, this will also constitute a failure, as release would probably occur with geometry of
different dimensions.
No hook will fail a test on an attachment point where its use is clearly and permanently warned against in accordance with 6 g).

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by corbin39sailor

About the only things to add are that the breaking strength of the heavy duty jackline webbing is about 4200 lbs and the extra heavy duty is 6000 lbs. Allow about 2 to 3 weeks as these are custom made to order. When measuring jacklines, don't forget to add a couple of feet in order to tie one end off. Send a PM with your requirements and email address and I will send you back a quote.

The jack line itself might have a breaking strength of 4200 lbs but what is the strength of the V92 where sewn.. and the perferated area where it is sewn..
We've done extensive testing on climbing gear to enter a new market here at the shop but have found the material is not the worry when loaded but instead the joint where it is sewn..
If its not sewn to a certain standard, in a certain design, with the proper materials, you'll find the failure point to be at the conection where sewn.
The standard V92 poly thread with a breaking strength of 14.2 lbs has a life of only a couple years in the elements of of sailing.
Has any of your equeptment that you make been tested?

[corbin39sailor]

I appreciate both of your opinions but I am trying to offer a less expensive alternative to the Wichard 7001 and 7002 tethers which are made about the same with the same type of hardware. I also think that safety should not be compromised and I would be happy to quote any type shackles or stitching, like the shackle suggested or tenara thread, but the cost rises significantly.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

...We've done extensive testing on climbing gear to enter a new market here at the shop but have found the material is not the worry when loaded but instead the joint where it is sewn....

Oh yeah? What sort? I used to make and market some climbing gear back in the early dot.com days (Contact Climbing Gear Inc.). Pull testing to failure was always fun, and sometimes loud. And then came the crag testing. The web site is long gone, but I do maintain this site:
Climber's Guide to Old Rag Mountain, Virginia

Lamentably, I don't climb as much as I used to.

[goboatingnow]

I use Wichard tethers, I feel they are worth the price for the quality of such a critical area. I use the version with the snap shackle release on one end.

Dave

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I use Wichard tethers, I feel they are worth the price for the quality of such a critical area. I use the version with the snap shackle release on one end.

Dave

Just curious:
* Have you ever had a spinakar shackle release because it was not well closed? I'm sure you've seen folks with a chute in the air, and that's the usual cause.
* Have you heard that you NEVER use a snap shackle to attach a climbing to the halyard? That is, of course, because they are undependable. A climber wouldn't use one, not on a bet. Ever.

No, I don't think offering snap shackles is a sign of quality. I don't think they are the best tool for the job and many agree. Notice that Wichard also sells double non-locking tethers--which fail the ISO requirements for jackline-end tether biners--which I think they should not do. They should be discontinued.

The Wichard double-action carabiner or the Kong Tango are better choices.

------------------

I do like the idea of a little guy trying to get into the business. But I would like to see more stitching, more testing, and better components. What I would really like to see is some little guy introduce this feature into a tether:
http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/screamer/index.htm
It is a requirement in OSHA tethers for construction.

Innovation would really allow a new guy to stand out. There would be no need for a discount. That's what I would do.

[ice]

He is a tether that is very easy for anyone to make, extremely strong, and safe/flexible to use.



It is recognized that the part that clips to your harness should be able to be released under load - so you can release it if trapped by it (say under the boat). The tylaska is the best shackle to do that.

The two legs allow you to clip on short, so you simple can not fall off the side of the boat, when you are working in place - as at the helm or mast or innerstay. While the second longer leg allows you greater reach and working room (usually needed on the foredeck), and allows you to always have one leg clipped when moving around an obstacle.

Some people stow the spare leg on the harness ring, but that defeats the purpose of the quick release shackle - because if you release the tylaska you would still have that leg with its 'non-quick release shackle' on the harness. So, there is a small amsteel loop on the tylaska where you can stow the leg clips.

The line is 1/4" Amsteel. 7,400lbs breaking strength. The splices are dead simple, anyone can make them in 5 minutes (basically just Chinese finger locks with a little twist and some whipping). No sewing machine required.

[goboatingnow]

[QUOTE="thinwater"]

Just curious:
* Have you ever had a spinakar shackle release because it was not well closed? I'm sure you've seen folks with a chute in the air, and that's the usual cause.
* Have you heard that you NEVER use a snap shackle to attach a climbing to the halyard? That is, of course, because they are undependable. A climber wouldn't use one, not on a bet. Ever.

No, I don't think offering snap shackles is a sign of quality. I don't think they are the best tool for the job and many agree. Notice that Wichard also sells double non-locking tethers--which fail the ISO requirements for jackline-end tether biners--which I think they should not do. They should be discontinued.

The Wichard double-action carabiner or the Kong Tango are better choices.

------------------
I understand the arguments. I found it impossible to release the double action units under pressure ( like being dragged along at 4knots) it almost killed me. I want a system where I can release the tether under pressure. For that I'll take the associated risks.

Different people have different views. The RNLI do not allow crews of D class boats to hook onto the boat using double action clips. This is because of the danger of being unable to release themselves.

Dave

[thinwater]

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;906591]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Just curious:
* Have you ever had a spinakar shackle release because it was not well closed? I'm sure you've seen folks with a chute in the air, and that's the usual cause.
* Have you heard that you NEVER use a snap shackle to attach a climbing to the halyard? That is, of course, because they are undependable. A climber wouldn't use one, not on a bet. Ever.

No, I don't think offering snap shackles is a sign of quality. I don't think they are the best tool for the job and many agree. Notice that Wichard also sells double non-locking tethers--which fail the ISO requirements for jackline-end tether biners--which I think they should not do. They should be discontinued.

The Wichard double-action carabiner or the Kong Tango are better choices.

------------------
I understand the arguments. I found it impossible to release the double action units under pressure ( like being dragged along at 4knots) it almost killed me. I want a system where I can release the tether under pressure. For that I'll take the associated risks.

Different people have different views. The RNLI do not allow crews of D class boats to hook onto the boat using double action clips. This is because of the danger of being unable to release themselves.

Dave

That strikes me like a well informed opinion, and for fully-crewed boats, perhaps wise. On the D-class boats, certainly.

But I single hand much of the time and releasing in winter water or offshore would be fatal. Releasing at night or in wild conditions could be fatal on a crewed boat, particularly if short handed, so different considerations must be given weight.

I'm sure we would both agree that the jackline end needs to lock.

[goboatingnow]

Yes I agree the jackline end needs to lock. Though the squeeze system Wichard use is very effective even if not fully in the ISO spirit of things.

I actually believe the whole system of jack lines is useless on a yacht anyway. Firstly their placement means they do not prevent you from falling overboard, which is suppose to be the point of the whole thing. If you have like me gone over attached, you quickly realise that unless the boat stops sharpish you'll drown anyway. Being pulling with an inflated lifejacket from that centre point causes you to be dragged under. It's a most imperfect system and like most safety system on yachts, designed to give an "illusion" of safety.

The best system I saw was a solid T track running down the coach roof with sliders to hook to your tether, it was simply impossible to go over the lifelines.

Dave