Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: If you were crewing on this boat on that day, would you crew again?
Yes (why?) 1 5.88%
No (why?) 13 76.47%
Perhaps (why?) 3 17.65%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 25-04-2012, 11:01   #31
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
fyi

here are two pfds that i am considering...not cheap

http://www.myboatsgear.com/mbg/product.asp?prodID=2365

http://www.myboatsgear.com/mbg/product.asp?prodID=1951

these are for offshore use so not sure if what you had in mind...
__________________

__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 11:03   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I would say that skipper is not very diligent. Only an idiot would go as far as telling crew NOT to wear a pfd. I would tell them it's their choice, show them where the pfds are and suggest that good swimmers drown all the time....
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 14:04   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 584
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

It was my wife that was told not to wear a auto inflate PFD because they were dangerous. She wore her Spinlock of course, not of the other crew or skipper did. Sure, a auto inflate could cause you a problem if below decks when a boat were swamped, but in any kind of sea that is more than calm, surely you should keep at least one of the companion way boards in and the hatches closed and secured? I do.
The Volvo race skipper is showing a very bad example of boat safety, I certainly would not wish to sail with him.
Oh, I have been a pro sailboat skipper and have sailed a boat up to 65 feet singlehanded with spinnaker etc. so I have had some experience.
Bazzer
__________________
bazzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 15:40   #34
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,332
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I can not believe people are doing the "rules say" game. If YOU feel it is time to put your life vest on don't let anyone stop you! If they say "you can not wear your life vest" response "screw you!!!". Either way you probably are not going to be on that boat again, so everyone is happy!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 16:13   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 19
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Thanks to all of you on this timely post. I'm educating myself on what type of PFD to purchase. Currently I mostly sail weekends on a Cal 2-27 and am just starting to sail on 14' dinghies. Going on my first charter to BVI in June and intend to eventually do a lot of coastal and blue water cruising. I understand that PFDs will be provided with the charter boat, but would like to purchase one that could be used across the board - cruising and small boat racing. Your discussion of pros/cons of various features, as well as attitudes has helped guide my research. Bless your salty little hearts.
__________________
GeoGoddess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 16:22   #36
Registered User
 
susanna reiter's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Mexico and our S/V is in Fort Pierce..hope to be there soon and sailing.
Boat: S/V"KAREN", Pearson Alberg 35. an achilles dingy, 2 kyaks.
Posts: 202
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

With the competent and informative help from "foolishsailor" and after reviewing the websites he provided...I have to say I am gonna go with the Kru Sport Pro with the hood, harness and crotch strap....I may have to get it shipped from SouthHampton UK but I think its got to be "the kind". Check it out.
__________________
susanna reiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 17:55   #37
Registered User
 
bewitched's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 885
Images: 3
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
I can not believe people are doing the "rules say" game.
There has been a lot of thought put into those rules by a lot of very, very experienced sailors and the rules say that the wearing of PFDs is up to the individual.

Not the Skipper. Not the Race Committee.

So when either takes that decision away from the individual, even with the best intentions, they may not necessarily be making the best safety call.
__________________
bewitched is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2012, 18:26   #38
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I would not sail again with this guy.

The skipper is there also to make the crew feel safe.

Read what Mike Golding says on this subject in his chapter of 'Heavy Weather Sailing' - his is an interesting take too!

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 10:04   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoGoddess View Post
Thanks to all of you on this timely post. I'm educating myself on what type of PFD to purchase. Currently I mostly sail weekends on a Cal 2-27 and am just starting to sail on 14' dinghies. Going on my first charter to BVI in June and intend to eventually do a lot of coastal and blue water cruising. I understand that PFDs will be provided with the charter boat, but would like to purchase one that could be used across the board - cruising and small boat racing. Your discussion of pros/cons of various features, as well as attitudes has helped guide my research. Bless your salty little hearts.
an inflatable wont be able to be carried on the airplane I think.... Frankly, I've had a few inflatables. One with a built in harness was nice for ocean crossings... but I have a well worn thin foam one that is soft and comfortable and I prefer it really. Inflatables are one more thing to maintain.... I KNOW foam will float!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 10:59   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

With more deaths, some governments and agencies will feel pressured or empowered to take the decision out of the hands of crew, skippers, or race committees and legislate what they think is safe, whether it makes sense to sailors or not. There are already jurisdictions that do so.
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea http://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 14:54   #41
Registered User
 
susanna reiter's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Mexico and our S/V is in Fort Pierce..hope to be there soon and sailing.
Boat: S/V"KAREN", Pearson Alberg 35. an achilles dingy, 2 kyaks.
Posts: 202
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
With more deaths, some governments and agencies will feel pressured or empowered to take the decision out of the hands of crew, skippers, or race committees and legislate what they think is safe, whether it makes sense to sailors or not. There are already jurisdictions that do so.
Well "rgscpat" nailed it !!! check out the latest Lattitude 38 "lectronic Latitude. The USCG has just announced an unprecedented cancellation of all ocean raising in the San Francisco area until further investigation and the USCG's consideration and resolution of safety requirements are implemented. Check it out.
__________________
susanna reiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 15:23   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

I would side with the skipper, he did not say wear no pfd, he said don't wear a automaitcally inflating PFD. I see his point if you consider how those things work. They inflate when a water soluble tablet gets wet. These things take almost no water to trigger. In a race crew often get quite wet and sometimes almost submerged. If any of this happens which is actually more likey in a racing situation the pfd will inflate. Of course since you are not actually in the water and don't need your PFD inflated you wiould probably deflate it so you could continue your crew duties. Of course now you are left with a PFD that can only be inflated by the mouth tubes since you've already blown your CO2 cartridge on a needless inflation. If you then go into the water you had better hope you've got enough consciousness and time to find the mouth tubes and blow up the pfd before you have any kind of positive flotation. I know a number of racers and none of them use autoinflaters because they get too wet. Better to have a PFD that only requires a tug on a cord to inflate than a wasted one you have to inflate by mouth.

My 2 cents, change welcome.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 15:44   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
No worries, this forum is all about exchanging information.

here is just one of the latest deaths that upon investigation was clearly directly tied to an auto inflate PFD

Investigation complete: Chicago to Mackinac race deaths : News : UpNorthLive.com

you can google yourself to find PLENTY more.

I personally prefer autoinflate as I would be more concerned with cold water shock or a head injusry than I am with being trapped by the autoinflate...however if you have read the latest reviews of pfd's - if you dont have a hood and a proper crotch strap - you are still as good as dead in any conditions worse than force 5...

...regarding the OP's real question - which i didnt get till now...

...If a crew countered a decision that was safety based I would take them to the nearest Pier and drop them off, even at the expense of a loss should I be racing.

...however it is also the crews responsibility, if they feel unsafe to demand to be dropped off if they feel the skipper is requiring them to do something they are not comfortable with.

edit: To be honest, after reading about 7 articles on auto inflate PFD's they all talk about "near" deaths attributable to PFD's. And situations where if a person HAD been wearing one they would likely have died...however I cant find any evidence that someones death was attributable to an autoinflate PFD...
Yes the report just says that the autoinflate pfds COULD have caused deaths under different circumstances. The two deaths were due to blunt force trauma.

I read the testimony from the survivor of the recent Farallones accident, and he was quite clear that the inflatable PFD saved his life. He didn't have a crotch strap and said that one would have been better, but the pfd still worked without.

I guess you have to consider the most likely scenario. For me, day sailing around SF bay, the most likely accident is falling off the boat, untethered. Maybe unconscious as the boom just knocked them overboard after an accidental gybe. An autoinflate is ideal.

I think the skipper here did the right thing. Expressed his concerns, but not permitting a crew member to wear a safety device they want to wear is unreasonable.
__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 15:59   #44
Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
 
sarafina's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
Images: 56
I'm crewing for a bay charter tomorrow.

If I showed up and the Captain said "no inflatable pdf's because they were dangerous" I would request an alternative option or would ignore her and fulfill my obligation that day. Unless I felt there was clear and present danger sailing I wouldn't leave someone in the lurch after I had committed to help.

But I would never sail with her again because I do not sail with idiots. Or at least not more than once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Here is just one of the latest deaths that upon investigation was clearly directly tied to an auto inflate PFD

Investigation complete: Chicago to Mackinac race deaths : News : UpNorthLive.com
I would be pretty confident that far more have drowned not wearing ANYTHING ; -)
__________________
Sara

ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
sarafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2012, 17:03   #45
Registered User
 
susanna reiter's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Mexico and our S/V is in Fort Pierce..hope to be there soon and sailing.
Boat: S/V"KAREN", Pearson Alberg 35. an achilles dingy, 2 kyaks.
Posts: 202
Re: PFDs & Skippers & Crew Question.

..sorry ..correction to post #41......"ocean racing" not "raising"...duh
__________________

__________________
susanna reiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crew

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:18.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.