Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-04-2016, 02:04   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne
Boat: Compass 28
Posts: 297
Tiller Pilot Question

I noticed the Simrad TP1/22/32 tiller pilots have Hall effect rotation sensors in the schematic, but can't see anything similar in the schematic for the Raymarine ST1000/2000.

Does anyone know the function of these sensors in the Simrads. Are they for motor stall detection?

Cheers, Graeme
__________________

__________________
lockie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 04:03   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne
Boat: Compass 28
Posts: 297
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

Nobody knows?
__________________

__________________
lockie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 06:22   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

I thought I posted a reply but it somehow got lost in cyber space. They are heading sensors and are used in conjunction with accelerometers to control the autopilot.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 06:37   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne
Boat: Compass 28
Posts: 297
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I thought I posted a reply but it somehow got lost in cyber space. They are heading sensors and are used in conjunction with accelerometers to control the autopilot.
No, that is not correct. The fluxgate compass does that, and there are no accelerometers in the circuit or assembly diagrams. These devices sense shaft rotation only.

Anybody know?
__________________
lockie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 08:09   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The boat - New Bern, NC, USA; Us - Kingsport, TN, USA
Boat: 1988 Pacific Seacraft 34
Posts: 421
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

The hall sensors appear to be counting shaft rotations. It would be a handy thing for the autopilot algorithm to know... run the motor clockwise X seconds to move the rudder Y degrees and such. When my TP-32 is connected to my NMEA2000 network, the IS40 display has a page that among other things shows rudder position. How else would it know?
__________________
wsmurdoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 19:23   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne
Boat: Compass 28
Posts: 297
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
The hall sensors appear to be counting shaft rotations. It would be a handy thing for the autopilot algorithm to know... run the motor clockwise X seconds to move the rudder Y degrees and such. When my TP-32 is connected to my NMEA2000 network, the IS40 display has a page that among other things shows rudder position. How else would it know?
I spoke to the Oz Simrad tech support contact and he confirmed that these sensors monitor shaft rotation to allowing de-energising of the motor when it stalls (ie at end of stroke).

As for monitoring actual shaft (ie rudder) position, there is no mention of this function in the user or service manuals, which suggests this is not the case.

Cheers, Graeme
__________________
lockie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 16:45   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The boat - New Bern, NC, USA; Us - Kingsport, TN, USA
Boat: 1988 Pacific Seacraft 34
Posts: 421
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

The TP10, TP22, TP32 Users Guide says, “The rudder position is captured at the first time initiation of the Autopilot mode. The information is however lost if the unit is turned OFF. Before initiating the Autopilot mode after a power down, you should ensure that the rudder is centered!” From that I guessed that my TP32 counted CW/CCW from that point using the Hall sensors on the little PCB and their magnets on the pulley.

I know for a fact that the rudder position is accurately displayed on my IS40’s “Steering” display. Somehow, someway, my TP32 keeps up with where its pushrod is located and tells my IS40 display where the rudder is located. It is my guess that the TP-32 counts ball drive shaft rotations using the two Hall sensors and magnets that I have seen at the motor end of the ball drive when I had the case open. But, truthfully, I don’t know. It is just electronic magic to me.

My system consists of a TP32 (I actually own two of them, one is a spare. Both have software version 1.1.03.00), an NSS chartplotter, A GS25 GPS and compass unit, and a RS35 VHF with a HS35 remote all on a NMEA2000 loop. All that stuff comes along with four IS15 displays, water and wind instruments, and a Simrad RA772 radar on a NMEA0183 network that is connected to the NSS. Hanging on the NMEA0183 loop are a number of USB things – a computer, a SignaLink sound card on the Icom IC-M710, a GPS puck, and a few other devises with their USB/RS232 converters. As best I can figure, only the TP32 tillerpilot “knows” the rudder angle, so it must be the thing telling the IS40 display. I have no way of monitoring a NMEA2000 loop, so I don’t really know.

Where did you find the circuit diagrams for the TP32? I’d like to have a copy.
__________________
wsmurdoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 22:34   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 1,373
Images: 7
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
The TP10, TP22, TP32 It is my guess that the TP-32 counts ball drive shaft rotations using the two Hall sensors and magnets that I have seen at the motor end of the ball drive when I had the case open. But, truthfully, I donít know. It is just electronic magic to me.
Two sensors are needed so that it can count both up and down, could be either end position detection to shut down the motor or position sensing or they could provide both functions.
__________________
RaymondR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2016, 04:29   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne
Boat: Compass 28
Posts: 297
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

I closely observed my TP22 to see what happens when it strokes out. At the end of stroke the motor is de-energised after a second or so, then has another couple of short bursts before stopping altogether It then remains de-energised until it reversed in the opposite direction.

So in addition to monitoring rudder position, the TP22 it actively detects stall and protects against grinding away to (eventual) destruction of the cogged drive belt like my ST2000+ did.

Shame, Raymarine, shame!

Cheers, Graeme
__________________
lockie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2016, 10:16   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,896
Re: Tiller Pilot Question

My St2000 didn't destroy the belt, it destroyed the thrust bearing supports. It is as driving input into a lab wind vane">Aries wind vane so negligible force required.

Maybe it was hitting the end of travel and grinding on?
__________________

__________________
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tiller pilot question Fog Bank Marine Electronics 2 29-09-2014 01:16
For Sale or Trade: Want to trade wheel pilot for tiller pilot Boatguy30 Classifieds Archive 1 22-09-2012 09:55
Just hooked up my tiller pilot / auto pilot boatsail Marine Electronics 4 27-06-2012 23:59
tiller pilot vs wheel pilot?? otherthan Monohull Sailboats 20 21-06-2011 14:52
Raymarine ST2000+ Tiller Pilot Question Opie91 Marine Electronics 9 30-04-2010 03:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.