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Old 18-02-2016, 13:00   #16
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
4K to install sounds like they are taking the piss and if they quote that for the install, then they are probably offering sucker prices for the hardware.

Shop around online and local stores to see the best prices and plan to fit as much as you can yourself.

Skip the radar unless you know exactly why you need one. Get a 7 inch a-series MFD unless you really desire bigger.

Install as much as you can as none of the installation requires a rocket scientist and where you are unsure, prepare as much as you can before you pay for outside help.
I installed my own electronics, and if you offered me $4k to do it again I would refuse.

It can be very laborious depending on how the cables are run and how the instruments are installed.

Laborious doesn't mean that it's really complex, however -- the complexity is greatly reduced with NMEA2000.

Also if you install it yourself, you know where everything is and how it works.

I say go for it, but do it carefully and study a lot before you start.

As to the gear itself, shop around online.
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Old 18-02-2016, 14:17   #17
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I installed my own electronics, and if you offered me $4k to do it again I would refuse.

It can be very laborious depending on how the cables are run and how the instruments are installed.

Laborious doesn't mean that it's really complex, however -- the complexity is greatly reduced with NMEA2000.

Also if you install it yourself, you know where everything is and how it works.

I say go for it, but do it carefully and study a lot before you start.

As to the gear itself, shop around online.
Good points. Electrical work on a boat has to be one of the most time intensive tasks to perform. Not so much hooking up wires, but the whole job of running those wires which always seems to require vast amounts of boat disassembly and unhealthy bodily contortions. And boy, oh boy, you better be up to speed on the "measure twice, cut once" principle before drilling and cutting all them holes. Even buying additional cabling, connectors, etc that will be required to complete the job can add significant extra dollars to the project.

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Old 18-02-2016, 14:58   #18
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Re: New electronics

Wow, you guys now understand why I don't work on boats for a living! (well, not to mention that most sailors are pretty cheap, so it's tough to get 'em to pay what I'm worth...)


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Electrical work on a boat has to be one of the most time intensive tasks to perform. Not so much hooking up wires, but the whole job of running those wires which always seems to require vast amounts of boat disassembly and unhealthy bodily contortions. And boy, oh boy, you better be up to speed on the "measure twice, cut once" principle before drilling and cutting all them holes.
Fair winds..

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Old 18-02-2016, 15:30   #19
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Re: New electronics

Why k's if you can have a plotter on a tablet. For say 200$.

Also, there are sub 500$ that seem pretty decent to me.

If one wants a 4k plotter then that's OK and there are more expensive ones too.

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Old 18-02-2016, 15:34   #20
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Re: New electronics

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Why k's if you can have a plotter on a tablet. For say 200$.

Also, there are sub 500$ that seem pretty decent to me.

If one wants a 4k plotter then that's OK and there are more expensive ones too.

b.
There's more to boat electronics than a plotter.

Depth, boat speed, wind, GPS, AIS, heading, autopilot would be about the minimum for most boats.
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Old 18-02-2016, 15:45   #21
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
There's more to boat electronics than a plotter.

Depth, boat speed, wind, GPS, AIS, heading, autopilot would be about the minimum for most boats.
Give me Depth and a GPS and I'm happy. AIS is great in the busy parts of the world, but the rest is not really needed. Each to there own.
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Old 18-02-2016, 18:01   #22
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
There's more to boat electronics than a plotter.

Depth, boat speed, wind, GPS, AIS, heading, autopilot would be about the minimum for most boats.
Ouch. 4k for the whole package. OK, I stand corrected. I assume fitting job included.

I will mildly disagree with the minimum list though. Electronics are nice to have and toys too, hardly ever a bare necessity. Depth can be read with lead, wind can be read from a pair of woolies, GPS is a new thing and we did do without before, AIS is even newer, heading is from the compass that is not a piece of electronics and an autopilot is hardly a must unless you are single-handed and racing.

Not to take anything from your take, which I find 100% in tune with the way 99.9 of consumers think today. It is our choice if we want to be sailors, or consumers, first.

PS I am gadget freak too allright.

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Old 19-02-2016, 06:47   #23
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Ouch. 4k for the whole package. OK, I stand corrected. I assume fitting job included.

I will mildly disagree with the minimum list though. Electronics are nice to have and toys too, hardly ever a bare necessity. Depth can be read with lead, wind can be read from a pair of woolies, GPS is a new thing and we did do without before, AIS is even newer, heading is from the compass that is not a piece of electronics and an autopilot is hardly a must unless you are single-handed and racing.

Not to take anything from your take, which I find 100% in tune with the way 99.9 of consumers think today. It is our choice if we want to be sailors, or consumers, first.

PS I am gadget freak too allright.

b.
So if you use lead for depth and a yarn for wind, you're a "sailor", but if you use a depth instrument and a wind instrument, you're a "consumer"? Hmmmm.
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Old 19-02-2016, 07:39   #24
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
So if you use lead for depth and a yarn for wind, you're a "sailor", but if you use a depth instrument and a wind instrument, you're a "consumer"? Hmmmm.
Hmmmmmm.

Let's agree you caught me with my pants down.

My overbearing tendency to make plain facts sound more dramatic than they deserve. ;-)

Yes, there is a large dose of consumerism in sailing today, but the same applies to any other sport. And there is neither proven nor implied cause and effect relationship between our use of technology and our skill level. Correlation does not imply causation.

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Old 19-02-2016, 07:58   #25
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Re: New electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Hmmmmmm.

Let's agree you caught me with my pants down.

My overbearing tendency to make plain facts sound more dramatic than they deserve. ;-)

Yes, there is a large dose of consumerism in sailing today, but the same applies to any other sport. And there is neither proven nor implied cause and effect relationship between our use of technology and our skill level. Correlation does not imply causation.

b.
I actually understood what you meant

Just calling out the slight overstatement of it - couldn't resist

And I agree 100% with this post

Chart plotters enormously simplify the job of pilotage. But there is still a lot you need to understand and to be able to do, to be a competent pilot. Of course it's not good, if you use the plotter to avoid learning anything about pilotage -- we can all agree about that.
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Old 19-02-2016, 08:07   #26
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Sail debvz View Post
Was just quoted what seemed to me an exorbitant amount of dollars for chart plotter (ray marine a series) with radar and apparently a lot of bells and whistles. Labor alone was $4K. So imagine the rest. Question: pretty handy...can I do myself (boat currently on the hard) And might this job be less expensive say, in Florida ? I know I can cut some corners like smaller size and eliminate the radar....boat currently has nothing but a good compass. Depth, wind and speed are original and work only ocassionally.
First of all, what do you actually need (or want) on your boat? There's little point in buying things you won't use.

As for $4K in labor, that sounds like 40 hours or so. That seems pretty high. Can you do it? Some folks can, some will screw it up pretty badly.

Why don't you figure out what you need and want, then get several quotes from different vendors or installers.
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Old 19-02-2016, 08:11   #27
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
There's more to boat electronics than a plotter.

Depth, boat speed, wind, GPS, AIS, heading, autopilot would be about the minimum for most boats.
I'm happy with a plotter with depth sounder and a VHF. The plotter tells me the speed. An AIS receiver would be nice. You can now get this built in to the VHF.

What we need on our boats depends on how and where we use our boats.
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Old 19-02-2016, 14:54   #28
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Re: New electronics

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So if you use lead for depth and a yarn for wind, you're a "sailor", but if you use a depth instrument and a wind instrument, you're a "consumer"? Hmmmm.
I tried a leadline for while when my old sounder died. Absolutely a pain in the .... When trying to find a good anchorage in waters you don't know well. I now have two, to fit, one as a backup.

But generally I prefer sailing without instruments in my face. I find the numbers distract me from the moment. Instead of just enjoying the way she is sliding through the water my eye goes to the speed to see what it says, somehow that number then defines the experience.

Likewise wind, I can look to windward, feel the wind blow past my face, look at the way the waves are forming, looking for the tells that indicate the changes in force, judge this against the heel and power of the boat for the amount of sail I have up and the point of sail. Again I don't know for sure the "exact" number for the wind, but I know exactly what it "is".

One of the great things I learnt as a kid when racing dinghys was to sail to windward with my eyes closed. Our trainer followed and helped guide us. It was interesting how your body's other senses started to make it work well. Instead of watching the telltales, you started feeling everything. A good lesson.

One day DH, try switching everything off, sail the boat by feel, and sight. You will feel a bit blind at first, your eyes will keep flicking to those dead instruments, and you will experience a sense of loss. But maybe after a while you might start to "see" everything else...

Enough philosophy for now, needless to say I was always impressed by the Bernard Moitessier school of sailing!

Or maybe I'm just on too much of a budget?
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Old 19-02-2016, 15:42   #29
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Re: New electronics

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
I tried a leadline for while when my old sounder died. Absolutely a pain in the .... When trying to find a good anchorage in waters you don't know well. I now have two, to fit, one as a backup.

But generally I prefer sailing without instruments in my face. I find the numbers distract me from the moment. Instead of just enjoying the way she is sliding through the water my eye goes to the speed to see what it says, somehow that number then defines the experience.

Likewise wind, I can look to windward, feel the wind blow past my face, look at the way the waves are forming, looking for the tells that indicate the changes in force, judge this against the heel and power of the boat for the amount of sail I have up and the point of sail. Again I don't know for sure the "exact" number for the wind, but I know exactly what it "is".

One of the great things I learnt as a kid when racing dinghys was to sail to windward with my eyes closed. Our trainer followed and helped guide us. It was interesting how your body's other senses started to make it work well. Instead of watching the telltales, you started feeling everything. A good lesson.

One day DH, try switching everything off, sail the boat by feel, and sight. You will feel a bit blind at first, your eyes will keep flicking to those dead instruments, and you will experience a sense of loss. But maybe after a while you might start to "see" everything else...

Enough philosophy for now, needless to say I was always impressed by the Bernard Moitessier school of sailing!

Or maybe I'm just on too much of a budget?
+10^1000

Including the budget

Which is why recently getting a sony xperia waterproof tablet displaying everything is so good for that very occasional once in a while when it all gets a bit busy and you like having the choice of everything in front of you
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Old 19-02-2016, 16:00   #30
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Re: New electronics

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+10^1000

Including the budget

Which is why recently getting a sony xperia waterproof tablet displaying everything is so good for that very occasional once in a while when it all gets a bit busy and you like having the choice of everything in front of you
Wise choice of phablet there, sir ;-)

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